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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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urea hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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hello Richard Stefan I love coming here

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to do the the opening for the show I do

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it's good it's good most of the time

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mostly but there's some weird noise

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outside yes I know it's been there's

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been a jackhammer going since would you

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believe it about 5 30 this morning

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really I believe because I've got a sort

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of big block of vacant land next door

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yeah I believe they found a crystal mine

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that explains mine the of healing

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crystals you're in crystal I think it

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says I found that they've gone II and

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they haven't worried about any of the

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council bylaws they've just gone in and

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started digging because we really need

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those healing crystals in some of the

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disaster spots around the world we do no

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wonder you're so healthy all the time I

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know I didn't realize yeah since I moved

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into this place yeah yeah I've been

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feeling a million dollars it's awfully

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crystal but damn it they found only get

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him up on this I'm gonna get down hill

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now so listeners hear a jackhammer

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that's right yes oh I do apologize sir

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normally this soundproof amazing studio

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here it is a little bit noisy ended in

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the background there it is again yeah

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never mind we'll plug on the Guster's

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carry on we better yeah welcome to

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episode 73 no way yes way 73 3 it seems

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like only last week it was episode 72 it

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was that's phenomenal it was ah how time

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flies we had a lot of listener feedback

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from last week's episode because talking

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about last week and last month and

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large-scale I told him back in time from

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the very first time that I came along

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too near FM yes way back in 2001 and we

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did that interview spot and those

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interviews last of the year did you know

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really yeah the skeptics and I came in

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on Raw for a year after that ah it's

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felt like about 10 years did no no that

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was a great time here we had like it

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there was a real studio so yeah it was

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actually Australia's first internet

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radio station so it was a tiny little

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proper radio studio I remember was

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bright orange wasn't yeah it was all

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sort of trendy colors and stuff here was

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great we had a lot of fun this pre

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pioneering stuff yeah

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yeah there before the age of podcasting

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we were there we were there we will

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happen mine is so what's happening this

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week well this is the age of podcasting

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it certainly is it is as you said

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episode 73 for the 12th of March even

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this year starting to sort of take on I

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know you know the funny thing is it's

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actually my my father's birthday today

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he's been he's passed away for a while I

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did my calculations he would be 97 this

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year I couldn't believe it wow he's a

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late starter he was his very very late

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start March the 12th massive tree we are

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so what's on this week Richard well

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we've got an interview by our reporter

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Kylie Sturgis with Milton moma kinis

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who's a UK musician ah musician I love

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musicians but only in the platonic sense

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oh good Yonkers now he's a really

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interesting guy he had leukemia when you

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sort of locked away in hospital wards

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for ages and he's going to talk about

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mostly his music today right they say

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laga tube does that mean with those a

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miracle healing involved you know I

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don't think so right buddy but he's okay

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now he seems to be okay it was the

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doctors and nurses that helped him write

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and drugs and things reason and

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treatment actual medical treatments

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America phenomenal memory call me rakat

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miraculous and actually speaking about

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our reporter Kylie she is one of the

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presenters hmm at the rise of atheism

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conference happening right now wool

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that's our Dominus in Melbourne the rise

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of atheists yeah with Richard Dawkins pz

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myers she's all the non atheists are

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gonna see that as like yeah that's Satan

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coming out of the ground and taking over

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the whole field come down to the ground

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does he need a doesn't fall from the sky

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um actually that's it that's that's this

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good scientific questions must

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investigate a was a snake in a tree

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wasn't he ah was he he's I oh my god

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he's very easy he's deceptive he's a

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deceiver so whatever you think yes he's

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doing something different even if you

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know what he's doing even if you know

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you don't know you don't even if he

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tells you he's lying so you can assume

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he's lying about everything you know but

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that's a lie even the fact that he's

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lying he's lying that's amazing you

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wonder why people get so confused on why

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there's a rise in atheism reg why

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exactly why because they're so confused

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you know from the truth all right yeah

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well that's pretty cool that's pretty

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cool so well done Kylie so everybody

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who's just downloaded as shown if you're

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at the conference say hi to Kylie yes

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she's a bit of a legend he's a bit of a

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legend and that's followed by another

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extended think tank an extended thing

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taking what happened a couple extra

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beers or something well actually no you

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weren't drinking that time oh really

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you're just chatting away yeah yeah okay

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only any exciting topics of conversation

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or should we just wait always exciting

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notice a competency always in the old

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think tank and by the way talking about

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that pz myers a bit earlier he's going

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to be in Canberra for the Canberra

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skeptics in the pub on saturday the

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twentieth march King o'malley's irish

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pub hey and is he going to be doing any

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music at all well pz myers doesn't we

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might alrighty miles at sony milton his

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immediate milk missing musician pz myers

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is the blogger blog on race day plays a

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keyboard well the community but i'm

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having one of those days list is I jakim

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it's the jackhammers the crystals are

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all out of alignment it's not happening

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no it's not at all oh and how's your

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actual career because I you've been kind

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of fleeting all over the world doing all

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kinds of things any any big news for you

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coming up well apart from the fact that

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we're lining up Tam Australia are which

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is gonna be massive in layton over the

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crystal mines at it again in late

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November are getting ready for Tam las

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vegas wednesday that's in jul jun now

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july july right in las vegas and Dragon

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Con in September in Atlanta and I'm

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trying to wangle my way see how I go to

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going to Tam London are you angler you

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you are probably the most jet-setting

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skeptic on the planet of the moment I

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would suggest ah Richard Dawkins

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probably a jet-set Archer now he's not a

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skeptic he believes in evolution well

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adjusting the point I I don't think he

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even he would say that I'd I just

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kidding though I'm a big fan of Richard

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Dawkins good on rigid organs yeah I hope

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he's having a good time in Melbourne he

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was in Sydney of course a few days ago

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did you catch up with it I did not I do

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not because I

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we'll be catching up with him in Las

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Vegas ah right and he's you're a heavy

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schedule so even someone as legendary as

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you has to wait in line I would look at

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me and say who the hell you know I

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that's what what happened but now this

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is a saying where the hell's the show

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they certainly are like an i can

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understand that I do apologize like I

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say the crystals are all out of

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alignment today so let's just get all

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Oh

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I'm Carly Sturgis and I'm talking to

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Milton mckie DS milton lives in London

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and is currently working on his ph.d at

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the same time he's a bandleader composer

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and an artist of many different forms of

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music as a leukemia survivor and

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continuing activist his blog entries and

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YouTube videos are available at his milk

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central site in addition to that you can

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also listen to episode 153 of the

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geologic podcast we're both milton and

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his wife bridget talk about their

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experiences for this interview i decided

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to focus on milton's music in particular

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how science has inspired him well you're

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always interested in a career in music

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because looking over your biography I

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can see that you graduated with the BSC

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from the London School of Economics no

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it wasn't actually my father was a

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physicist nuclear physicist at CERN and

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so I grew up near the particle

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accelerator there and so I was really

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into space and physics as a kid and he

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used to go around and see these

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incredible particle accelerators and I

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would stare for their inception of the

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internet and I used to play on those

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computers and chat to my dead from a

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different office and he taught me a

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little bit of Fortran a computer

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language and so I was utterly into

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science as a kid but I didn't see it as

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science or anything like that I just saw

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it's beautiful because I've walk into

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this place and there was aesthetically

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beautiful imagery and I didn't really

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separate that aesthetic of science with

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art and I still don't actually so I

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wasn't specifically into music from the

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beginning but I've always had an

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aesthetic appreciation of of science

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which feeds into my music that's it and

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music came a little later Oh music

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actually was when I heard my uncle gave

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me a tape of the Beatles and a one side

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was sergeant peppers and the other side

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was magical mystery tour and I think I

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probably spent a year listening to

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it was at once familiar and a once

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surprisingly amazing and a completely

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fell in love with music at that point

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but never pursued it on much later

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actually so what led you to change

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career direction I was good at maths and

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economics of school and without really

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thinking or considering what I wanted it

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was just natural to go to lse which was

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the most was kind of most prestigious

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economics school and I had some

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philanthropic ambition to if I could

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make poor people more wealthy without

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affecting more wealthy people then you

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know that's something I really want to

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do of course I after three years of

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studying economics I realize didn't want

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it that badly so about you and Mick

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Jagger both went to the same yeah we did

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no he was slightly before me i'm sure i

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think but I I would say yes and it was

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it was an interesting place but mainly I

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learnt that I didn't I wasn't really

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into it but I I pushed through and

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completed it as as I worked on that I

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realized it wasn't really win my heart

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lay and as soon as I finish that degree

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I went to Berklee College of Music in

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Boston to study there and I just went

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when did you think you first started

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becoming a skeptic that's a good

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question that's a very good question is

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interesting cause certain events happen

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when I was younger which sort of led me

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to believe that there was some

269
00:12:40,460 --> 00:12:38,070
connection to everything and in

270
00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:40,470
retrospect I realized that there was

271
00:12:45,699 --> 00:12:42,690
just you know confirmation bias and so

272
00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:45,709
on but there was one event when I was I

273
00:12:50,689 --> 00:12:48,750
used to have to travel a lot by plane as

274
00:12:52,430 --> 00:12:50,699
a kid to visit my parents I went to

275
00:12:55,189 --> 00:12:52,440
boarding school and then there was one

276
00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:55,199
airline flight where the plane was

277
00:12:59,480 --> 00:12:56,570
delayed because they were looking for

278
00:13:01,250 --> 00:12:59,490
someone called Stephanie chick that's

279
00:13:03,470 --> 00:13:01,260
what I remember it clearly and we can

280
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:03,480
set off until she was found they didn't

281
00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:04,800
find that I had to remove her luggage

282
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:06,779
and I was thinking did she change her

283
00:13:11,629 --> 00:13:09,510
mind did something happen physically

284
00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:11,639
happen to her you know it's just a kid

285
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:13,860
but just thinking about that and then we

286
00:13:18,439 --> 00:13:15,810
arrived at the other end I got got home

287
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:18,449
and then as I took my shoes off I found

288
00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:20,370
this sticker which was the luggage

289
00:13:27,259 --> 00:13:23,430
sticker with Stephanie chick with her

290
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:27,269
name on the bottom of my shoe I just

291
00:13:32,210 --> 00:13:30,480
thought how hard how odd is that one of

292
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:32,220
the chances that sort of thing it didn't

293
00:13:35,780 --> 00:13:33,569
I give me know what it meant and it

294
00:13:37,550 --> 00:13:35,790
didn't mean anything but I you know I

295
00:13:39,620 --> 00:13:37,560
really had thought about her and there

296
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:39,630
she was in my shoes so these were the

297
00:13:43,009 --> 00:13:41,130
sort of odd things that were thinking

298
00:13:46,129 --> 00:13:43,019
but I was always sort of questioning

299
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:46,139
what everything was from a young age and

300
00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:48,959
I remember really being five pondering

301
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:52,290
the nature of time what time was night I

302
00:13:57,019 --> 00:13:54,930
remember thinking I can't imagine a time

303
00:13:59,090 --> 00:13:57,029
beyond this moment i'm living at the

304
00:14:01,340 --> 00:13:59,100
moment i know there will be one but i

305
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:01,350
just can't imagine it I would kind of

306
00:14:05,540 --> 00:14:03,510
stop for a moment and I think I'm not

307
00:14:07,610 --> 00:14:05,550
going to let time go on any further than

308
00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:07,620
this point I'm just going to rein it in

309
00:14:13,340 --> 00:14:10,230
right here this'll be it the universe

310
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:13,350
this is it right here and knowing that

311
00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:15,600
it would dare win stop you know this

312
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:17,220
sort of play that I would have and I

313
00:14:21,379 --> 00:14:18,930
would continue that I still do that now

314
00:14:23,629 --> 00:14:21,389
so I would always have this play with

315
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:23,639
the world and reflect upon it as a as a

316
00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:25,730
kid and get into these sort of

317
00:14:30,259 --> 00:14:28,649
philosophical quandary zile that they

318
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:30,269
used to find me under tables just

319
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:32,490
thinking don't know why I had to do on

320
00:14:37,410 --> 00:14:34,450
the table but

321
00:14:39,450 --> 00:14:37,420
and I had a cousin story as well he was

322
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:39,460
running around the beach eating

323
00:14:45,450 --> 00:14:41,920
cigarette butts I would just stare into

324
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:45,460
space and just think and then looking in

325
00:14:49,860 --> 00:14:47,890
the night sky lips it completely blew me

326
00:14:53,310 --> 00:14:49,870
away but I remember as a kid I had this

327
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:53,320
book that was about future what we would

328
00:14:58,800 --> 00:14:56,800
expect to see in the future and you know

329
00:15:01,700 --> 00:14:58,810
it was about robots all the cool stuff

330
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:01,710
you want to read about space travel I

331
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:05,970
remember had settlements on on the moon

332
00:15:13,770 --> 00:15:10,290
awesome and bars and little trickier and

333
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:13,780
and then it was wave energy they had

334
00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:15,490
these things on the oceans to collect

335
00:15:19,620 --> 00:15:17,710
the energy from the waves it was amazing

336
00:15:22,620 --> 00:15:19,630
and then it was going up to the year

337
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:22,630
2000 what you'd expect to see a 2000 and

338
00:15:28,740 --> 00:15:25,330
robots in the home that's ah this is

339
00:15:32,610 --> 00:15:28,750
just amazing I just you know I can't

340
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:32,620
wait and there was this one last picture

341
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:35,440
and it said the year 3000 onwards and

342
00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:38,650
all it was it was like an eclipse earth

343
00:15:43,050 --> 00:15:41,260
a picture of an eclipse turth and it

344
00:15:46,410 --> 00:15:43,060
just said we have no idea what would

345
00:15:48,420 --> 00:15:46,420
happen the year 3000 onwards you know

346
00:15:50,970 --> 00:15:48,430
our imaginations can't reach that far

347
00:15:53,190 --> 00:15:50,980
and I remember looking at that and I did

348
00:15:55,530 --> 00:15:53,200
a quick calculation i just realized that

349
00:15:58,050 --> 00:15:55,540
I just wouldn't see it and they and I

350
00:16:00,450 --> 00:15:58,060
just I just SAT there it was probably

351
00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:00,460
about seven and just cried my eyes out

352
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:03,430
ah nah not really that I died but

353
00:16:09,510 --> 00:16:06,010
because I wouldn't see it and so I

354
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:09,520
always had this inquiring mind but the

355
00:16:13,650 --> 00:16:11,770
whole skeptic thing it was something

356
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:13,660
that never really it never really

357
00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:15,610
bothered me what other people thought

358
00:16:21,870 --> 00:16:18,550
and what um you know I didn't consider

359
00:16:25,980 --> 00:16:21,880
beliefs until I think it might have been

360
00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:25,990
the selfish gene actually which I read

361
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:29,590
when I was about 18 yeah because I

362
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:31,210
remember someone earlier making this

363
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:33,610
argument that I don't care how many

364
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:36,610
times a creature falls from a tree it's

365
00:16:41,130 --> 00:16:38,410
not going to start growing a feather and

366
00:16:42,990 --> 00:16:41,140
it's a stupid argument but I couldn't

367
00:16:45,270 --> 00:16:43,000
see what was wrong with it I couldn't

368
00:16:46,620 --> 00:16:45,280
see there was you know climbing mountain

369
00:16:48,390 --> 00:16:46,630
probable that was it

370
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:48,400
I couldn't see that a feather one

371
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:51,040
feather would make a difference or a

372
00:16:56,670 --> 00:16:54,010
layer of downy fur to flight not

373
00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:56,680
thinking about soaring and breaking

374
00:17:00,180 --> 00:16:58,570
falls and all these adaptation that

375
00:17:03,330 --> 00:17:00,190
could be used for another and I never

376
00:17:05,730 --> 00:17:03,340
thought about that so when I was just

377
00:17:07,970 --> 00:17:05,740
linking that idea of not knowing

378
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:07,980
something and then I became interested

379
00:17:12,930 --> 00:17:10,000
becoming a more radical thinker of

380
00:17:14,670 --> 00:17:12,940
what's going on around you exactly but

381
00:17:17,069 --> 00:17:14,680
there was a very important book that

382
00:17:20,010 --> 00:17:17,079
kind of got me on the road of skepticism

383
00:17:24,569 --> 00:17:20,020
in that it it did away with the need of

384
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:24,579
a god and that was which isn't the

385
00:17:29,370 --> 00:17:26,290
intention of the book at all but it was

386
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:29,380
going to lecture and bark eternal golden

387
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:32,410
braid and it was the idea of levels and

388
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:35,650
you know you've read it right absolutely

389
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:37,930
so I love that book read it twice and

390
00:17:44,790 --> 00:17:41,410
wrote to Douglas hoffstadt and I was

391
00:17:47,580 --> 00:17:44,800
completely completely moved by it and

392
00:17:49,790 --> 00:17:47,590
the idea of you know i love asia so much

393
00:17:52,110 --> 00:17:49,800
and there is a big inspiration that and

394
00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:52,120
that's not you know you wouldn't think

395
00:17:56,550 --> 00:17:54,190
that's an atheist or a skeptical

396
00:17:59,600 --> 00:17:56,560
position but actually somehow I found

397
00:18:02,340 --> 00:17:59,610
that for example the whole ant colony

398
00:18:05,790 --> 00:18:02,350
likening to the human mind where each

399
00:18:09,420 --> 00:18:05,800
constituent part is not smart but the

400
00:18:12,590 --> 00:18:09,430
interaction creates intelligence and in

401
00:18:15,180 --> 00:18:12,600
a way that's quite it in for me that

402
00:18:17,970 --> 00:18:15,190
negates any need of our sort of higher

403
00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:17,980
presence because the higher presence can

404
00:18:23,490 --> 00:18:21,040
be emergent and so I think there was a

405
00:18:27,390 --> 00:18:23,500
kind of soft introduction into that

406
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:27,400
world rather than suddenly deciding that

407
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:31,810
I was going to kill god I just found a

408
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:34,240
sort of me a more logical path I took a

409
00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:35,280
leap of

410
00:19:01,120 --> 00:18:38,070
it's the way I like to put it rob a

411
00:19:01,130 --> 00:19:31,350
you

412
00:19:36,700 --> 00:19:33,850
quite a bit of this reflection ended up

413
00:19:39,130 --> 00:19:36,710
getting you a place at tam London as a

414
00:19:41,980 --> 00:19:39,140
special guest a scholarship to attend on

415
00:19:43,390 --> 00:19:41,990
the basis of us a called a life examined

416
00:19:46,330 --> 00:19:43,400
can you tell us a little more about that

417
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:46,340
um that was a great honor and I was

418
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:49,330
really thrilled to have one that

419
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:52,490
strangely it's an essay that I didn't

420
00:19:58,480 --> 00:19:54,710
start till the day of the deadline and

421
00:20:01,750 --> 00:19:58,490
and finished it in literally four to

422
00:20:04,389 --> 00:20:01,760
five minutes just one go I wrote it off

423
00:20:06,370 --> 00:20:04,399
I other day I had to go to a friend's

424
00:20:08,110 --> 00:20:06,380
wedding and then play all playing or

425
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:08,120
when a different wedding gig that

426
00:20:13,269 --> 00:20:10,970
evening so in the morning I just thought

427
00:20:15,159 --> 00:20:13,279
oh it's the deadline unlike to watch I

428
00:20:17,620 --> 00:20:15,169
might as well do something did it

429
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:17,630
basically in one go send it off to a

430
00:20:22,419 --> 00:20:19,970
couple of people like you I think yes

431
00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:22,429
for proofreading and then by the end of

432
00:20:29,620 --> 00:20:26,750
the day I sent it on via iphone to to

433
00:20:32,049 --> 00:20:29,630
the organizers obviously I've got some

434
00:20:34,060 --> 00:20:32,059
quite interesting material to put in to

435
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:34,070
put in the essay I didn't have to you

436
00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:35,840
know I wouldn't have been able to do a

437
00:20:41,740 --> 00:20:38,270
very interesting as I think about on

438
00:20:44,789 --> 00:20:41,750
like yours on on in on particular any

439
00:20:47,769 --> 00:20:44,799
particular skepticism or scientific or

440
00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:47,779
or you know or any references heaven

441
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:53,990
forbid so you know I good material good

442
00:20:59,799 --> 00:20:58,010
material to work with I think so but I

443
00:21:03,240 --> 00:20:59,809
really enjoyed I really enjoyed writing

444
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:03,250
it and to get positive feedback from

445
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:06,890
James Randi I mean it's just just

446
00:21:13,419 --> 00:21:10,010
wonderful really just lovely now

447
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:13,429
reflections upon space-time the future

448
00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:15,049
this was something you did as a child

449
00:21:20,139 --> 00:21:18,049
and we can see this continue on through

450
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:20,149
all of your music as well I'm looking at

451
00:21:24,909 --> 00:21:22,370
your for example your listen page on

452
00:21:27,159 --> 00:21:24,919
your Milton murmur kds com site event

453
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:27,169
horizon which was a composition inspired

454
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:29,210
by quantum theory and particle physics

455
00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:31,370
we have blood lines which was inspired

456
00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:33,049
whilst you're in treatment for leukemia

457
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:35,510
is there anything that doesn't inspire

458
00:21:41,970 --> 00:21:38,650
you from sites that's my question

459
00:21:43,740 --> 00:21:41,980
I don't I haven't found anything yes I

460
00:21:46,290 --> 00:21:43,750
mean there's there's there's of those

461
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:46,300
countless things that I haven't written

462
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:51,130
a piece about but I doubt that you could

463
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:54,240
find something that wouldn't be

464
00:22:02,100 --> 00:21:58,170
interesting and and wouldn't be

465
00:22:04,830 --> 00:22:02,110
applicable to some musical form or other

466
00:22:07,410 --> 00:22:04,840
I i can't i can't think of any sort too

467
00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:07,420
damn interesting what's your PhD going

468
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:09,550
to be focusing upon i have had a look at

469
00:22:17,010 --> 00:22:12,850
a little bit of it I mean the PhD is

470
00:22:20,420 --> 00:22:17,020
it's a PhD in electronic composition but

471
00:22:23,670 --> 00:22:20,430
it's electronic composition that is

472
00:22:26,430 --> 00:22:23,680
derived from an understanding of jazz

473
00:22:30,990 --> 00:22:26,440
improvisation which is what my formal

474
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:31,000
training is from Bert college let me see

475
00:22:35,690 --> 00:22:33,280
how we're going to should be able to do

476
00:22:38,730 --> 00:22:35,700
this succinctly obviously I can't but

477
00:22:41,330 --> 00:22:38,740
essentially okay I'm going to do in one

478
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:41,340
sentence now the reapplication above

479
00:22:47,790 --> 00:22:44,250
improvisational mechanisms in a

480
00:22:50,820 --> 00:22:47,800
stylistically diverse or folio of new

481
00:23:06,690 --> 00:22:50,830
electronic works very well done that's

482
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:28,870
you

483
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:34,890
way with the the film of store actually

484
00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:39,360
yes I I they've redone the music with

485
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:41,790
live players and I am Bridget and I

486
00:23:47,330 --> 00:23:44,640
transcribed the original which was in a

487
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:47,340
sort of loop based sampled version of it

488
00:23:54,650 --> 00:23:50,880
of okay sorry let me talk in English not

489
00:23:58,909 --> 00:23:54,660
Muse otech speed 22 mentions original

490
00:24:01,220 --> 00:23:58,919
version has was constructed with loops

491
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:01,230
which are sort of prepared musical

492
00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:04,799
moments and sections of they're not real

493
00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:06,870
as well a recorded real instruments but

494
00:24:12,380 --> 00:24:09,630
they are sort of inflexible in that way

495
00:24:14,450 --> 00:24:12,390
and they because they have to stretch to

496
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:14,460
fix the time so on the sound quality

497
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:16,559
isn't great I mean it's an it sounds

498
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:20,130
great for live and so on but whenever

499
00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:22,080
he's recorded it he's used live players

500
00:24:27,380 --> 00:24:25,260
so to do when the storm movie came about

501
00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:27,390
it was a good opportunity to do a nice

502
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:29,820
recording of it with real players who

503
00:24:35,210 --> 00:24:32,880
can respond to what is playing and so

504
00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:35,220
Bridget and I transcribed the original

505
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:36,600
one which was quite an undertaking

506
00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:38,730
because it's over nine minutes and

507
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:41,460
complicated and then recorded at the

508
00:24:46,220 --> 00:24:43,200
Royal Academy and got and it sounds

509
00:24:47,930 --> 00:24:46,230
really nice so yes so I was very happy

510
00:24:49,850 --> 00:24:47,940
to be involved you know the funny thing

511
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:49,860
is is that I've asked you about all the

512
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:51,510
things you've done and I haven't even

513
00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:53,970
mentioned that on your site on milk

514
00:24:58,850 --> 00:24:56,070
central people can see the videos and

515
00:25:01,010 --> 00:24:58,860
the blogging of your battle with cancer

516
00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:01,020
and so people can even go there and read

517
00:25:06,110 --> 00:25:03,150
the history oh yeah we haven't mentioned

518
00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:06,120
their cancer be not was only friction

519
00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:08,400
you're just so multifaceted then it was

520
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,620
like oh yes and is that as well but how

521
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,720
that inspired your music certainly yeah

522
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:15,120
I'm kind of pulling away from that I'm

523
00:25:19,940 --> 00:25:16,770
still involved with leukemia research

524
00:25:23,780 --> 00:25:19,950
and and people I'm contacted all the

525
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:23,790
time by you the newly diagnosed but I'm

526
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:26,250
trying you know I don't want to sort of

527
00:25:31,539 --> 00:25:29,130
play that over play that card and I've I

528
00:25:34,899 --> 00:25:31,549
don't want it to come just a couple bro

529
00:25:36,609 --> 00:25:34,909
can record and so you know I'm trying to

530
00:25:38,409 --> 00:25:36,619
push on with our stuff but it was a very

531
00:25:41,889 --> 00:25:38,419
sort of important experience in my life

532
00:25:43,299 --> 00:25:41,899
so I can't negate it negate it

533
00:25:46,869 --> 00:25:43,309
completely but I'm happy to talk about

534
00:25:48,970 --> 00:25:46,879
that as well it was it see this is where

535
00:25:51,070 --> 00:25:48,980
I get grumpy you a bloody George cuz he

536
00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:51,080
stole the goddamn good questions as you

537
00:25:57,399 --> 00:25:55,190
can see but yeah that's why I thought

538
00:26:00,369 --> 00:25:57,409
okay in this interview i'm going to move

539
00:26:03,159 --> 00:26:00,379
more towards the science and the Georges

540
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:03,169
awesome George's is great and that was

541
00:26:07,749 --> 00:26:05,450
yeah I contacted him because I had to

542
00:26:11,470 --> 00:26:07,759
tell him how good he was basically but I

543
00:26:13,419 --> 00:26:11,480
just like that skeptic who's doing stuff

544
00:26:15,639 --> 00:26:13,429
you know who's that's the sort of thing

545
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:15,649
I well I could it was a musician as well

546
00:26:21,489 --> 00:26:18,320
so is very interesting and then that

547
00:26:23,470 --> 00:26:21,499
sort of delivery of skeptical view

548
00:26:32,409 --> 00:26:23,480
points in a humorous way it's very

549
00:26:37,299 --> 00:26:32,419
refreshing it's been quite a long while

550
00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:37,309
since I change the theme wonder if

551
00:26:52,289 --> 00:26:50,100
tional reasons mm-hmm brothers same

552
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:52,299
viewpoint is very nice for you to be

553
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:53,919
asking about my music and stuff like

554
00:26:57,810 --> 00:26:55,450
that it makes it as a nice change

555
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:57,820
because i've got i've been into a bead

556
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:01,600
on you know on radio and on newspapers

557
00:27:06,830 --> 00:27:03,610
all talking about my you know my

558
00:27:09,570 --> 00:27:06,840
leukemia or so brave all that crap and

559
00:27:11,610 --> 00:27:09,580
so it's really nice to talk about other

560
00:27:14,010 --> 00:27:11,620
stuff to be honest you see the thing is

561
00:27:17,010 --> 00:27:14,020
we're all subject to these to these

562
00:27:19,409 --> 00:27:17,020
things and that's why I'm careful

563
00:27:24,750 --> 00:27:19,419
knotted and I don't manage it but it's

564
00:27:29,310 --> 00:27:24,760
UNK I dry not to be too snobby or or

565
00:27:32,580 --> 00:27:29,320
superior yeah because we're all subject

566
00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:32,590
to it I mean most of my day I I spend my

567
00:27:38,610 --> 00:27:36,070
time doing irrational things at you know

568
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:38,620
and well some things you know aren't

569
00:27:42,780 --> 00:27:40,330
irrational if they make you feel better

570
00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:42,790
in a way you know if you know what I

571
00:27:47,789 --> 00:27:45,790
mean it's I do some things which I'm not

572
00:27:49,260 --> 00:27:47,799
doing a actually here's an economics

573
00:27:51,210 --> 00:27:49,270
thing you know there was these all these

574
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:51,220
mathematical models where everybody did

575
00:27:55,230 --> 00:27:52,799
high level of calculus trying to

576
00:27:58,110 --> 00:27:55,240
maximize their personal utility or

577
00:28:01,080 --> 00:27:58,120
happiness you know and kind of put me

578
00:28:03,390 --> 00:28:01,090
off because I just know that even if we

579
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:03,400
had that we'd be doing some little day

580
00:28:08,810 --> 00:28:05,200
and not living you know so there's

581
00:28:12,090 --> 00:28:08,820
certain there's certain things that and

582
00:28:15,030 --> 00:28:12,100
instinctual and also there is happiness

583
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:15,040
in some sort of irrationality the you

584
00:28:18,780 --> 00:28:16,690
know the rationality of music and love

585
00:28:20,669 --> 00:28:18,790
and all those things are in a way

586
00:28:24,510 --> 00:28:20,679
irrational other than they give you

587
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:24,520
great pleasure so I i think my beef is

588
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:27,970
really when Anna rationality spills into

589
00:28:34,530 --> 00:28:32,220
the into the freedom of others and also

590
00:28:37,020 --> 00:28:34,540
scientific and medical progress that

591
00:28:38,970 --> 00:28:37,030
just pisses me off for you know I see it

592
00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:38,980
quite violent on Twitter at times having

593
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:41,230
fights with homeopath sonication well

594
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:44,530
yeah I you know I this is one thing

595
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:46,450
that's changed is that it does actually

596
00:28:51,210 --> 00:28:48,640
matter to me i was quite less affair

597
00:28:55,649 --> 00:28:51,220
with all this stuff but if someone's

598
00:28:57,299 --> 00:28:55,659
claiming to cure I mean I see I saw you

599
00:28:59,639 --> 00:28:57,309
know kids dying of leukemia

600
00:29:03,060 --> 00:28:59,649
and if I see it homeopath claiming to be

601
00:29:05,460 --> 00:29:03,070
able to cure it you know how can I not

602
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:05,470
be offended or not at least ask the

603
00:29:11,009 --> 00:29:08,559
question are you sure about that you

604
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:11,019
know this whole 1023 I took part in that

605
00:29:16,409 --> 00:29:14,110
because it thrives on ignorance really

606
00:29:18,269 --> 00:29:16,419
and wishful thinking and I don't think

607
00:29:21,989 --> 00:29:18,279
that's the only way for a civilized

608
00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:21,999
society to behave in at least in the

609
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:24,220
field of medicine you know if there's

610
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:26,320
this conf lating of herbal with

611
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:29,529
homeopathy on TV with they took about 10

612
00:29:34,919 --> 00:29:33,039
23 and these phonons and why do I have

613
00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:34,929
to know it better than their you know I

614
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:38,289
know what homeopathy is and and what it

615
00:29:43,919 --> 00:29:40,240
claims to be and how it claims to work

616
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:43,929
and yet on TV you see this you know I

617
00:29:48,930 --> 00:29:46,240
used to trust that people knew things

618
00:30:09,760 --> 00:29:48,940
better than I edition I wasn't staying

619
00:30:39,340 --> 00:30:36,390
you

620
00:30:45,470 --> 00:30:42,590
but anyway so what happened after 10 23

621
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:45,480
a lot of homeopaths claimed that of

622
00:30:50,150 --> 00:30:47,600
course it we went over dose because

623
00:30:53,930 --> 00:30:50,160
hurry up with his heart a homing up in

624
00:30:56,290 --> 00:30:53,940
his heart harmless and or be any amount

625
00:30:59,210 --> 00:30:56,300
of homeopathy is the same as one dose

626
00:31:01,940 --> 00:30:59,220
why they have recommended doses on their

627
00:31:03,380 --> 00:31:01,950
packets then I don't know but so they're

628
00:31:05,180 --> 00:31:03,390
saying oh you're their homing about knew

629
00:31:10,070 --> 00:31:05,190
that it's just the same as taking one

630
00:31:12,410 --> 00:31:10,080
try taking or a metallic own 10m twice a

631
00:31:14,270 --> 00:31:12,420
day for two weeks then you'll be you

632
00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:14,280
know then you'll be sorry then you'll be

633
00:31:19,130 --> 00:31:17,310
a believer and so that's what I've done

634
00:31:24,410 --> 00:31:19,140
I've gone and bought this thing called

635
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,420
or a metallic am Oh 10 m m is a thousand

636
00:31:30,380 --> 00:31:26,880
see oh it's the Roman numerals of course

637
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:30,390
yeah well it's not quite right because C

638
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:32,730
would be a hundred and M would be a

639
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:35,730
thousand a thousand but M is actually a

640
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:38,490
thousand see so it's pretty illiterate

641
00:31:47,870 --> 00:31:43,290
so I've got 10,000 see which is 20,000 x

642
00:31:51,770 --> 00:31:47,880
I believe which is so beyond avocados

643
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:51,780
number i like to call it that it's so

644
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:54,570
beyond that that I mean it's just it is

645
00:32:00,980 --> 00:31:57,360
an incredible and it incredibly diluted

646
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:00,990
and so I've been a homeopath has

647
00:32:05,180 --> 00:32:03,450
challenged me to take these real we are

648
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:05,190
going to start recording it today and

649
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:07,530
you can follow those eggs for those

650
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:09,090
exploits it's meant to cause suicidal

651
00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:12,690
depression so we'll see how i feel about

652
00:32:18,050 --> 00:32:16,590
it in two weeks I don't know and it you

653
00:32:20,990 --> 00:32:18,060
know this is ain't gonna make any

654
00:32:22,190 --> 00:32:21,000
difference to anybody but you know at

655
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:22,200
least have gone through the process

656
00:32:26,750 --> 00:32:23,970
that's wonderful and it's all really

657
00:32:29,420 --> 00:32:26,760
exciting to see I've got a positive a

658
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:29,430
skeptical approach and it's see I love

659
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:31,050
Christopher Hitchens but I don't really

660
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:35,370
want to be a whiskey sudden red smoke

661
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:38,970
you know living in constant annoyance

662
00:32:44,390 --> 00:32:41,130
because that's the problem is I went

663
00:32:49,070 --> 00:32:44,400
quite hard damn be anti anti backs roots

664
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:49,080
as you guys well no you know that part

665
00:32:53,870 --> 00:32:51,330
and it's it's really her you know

666
00:32:56,180 --> 00:32:53,880
it's hurtful and there's only so much of

667
00:32:58,850 --> 00:32:56,190
that I want to expose myself to a day

668
00:33:00,890 --> 00:32:58,860
and you and dr. rachy I mean it to be up

669
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:00,900
close to a Meryl Dora thing I mean

670
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:04,770
there's a huge level of sort of me don't

671
00:33:09,620 --> 00:33:06,690
you feel your blood pressure rising with

672
00:33:11,420 --> 00:33:09,630
this with every encounter meeting the

673
00:33:13,340 --> 00:33:11,430
parents of Dinah McCaffrey was

674
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:13,350
absolutely staggering that happened at

675
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:16,110
the last australian skeptics what's so

676
00:33:21,740 --> 00:33:18,240
wonderful that they're supportive I mean

677
00:33:24,290 --> 00:33:21,750
that's my real admiration is for like

678
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:24,300
the parents of autistic children who are

679
00:33:31,610 --> 00:33:27,840
not anti backs and the death the

680
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:31,620
McCaffrey's yeah so all of this and

681
00:33:35,510 --> 00:33:34,050
you're still a gigging musician so what

682
00:33:37,250 --> 00:33:35,520
other projects have you got now have you

683
00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:37,260
even got an album in the works for

684
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:42,270
example um let's see uh yeah hang on let

685
00:33:48,740 --> 00:33:44,090
me think what should I tell you about

686
00:33:51,710 --> 00:33:48,750
okay it's fine yeah what's quite cause

687
00:33:53,030 --> 00:33:51,720
I've recently because I'm interested in

688
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:53,040
all sorts of music not just this

689
00:34:00,160 --> 00:33:56,490
electronic nerdery but I love literally

690
00:34:02,930 --> 00:34:00,170
love or meet all types of music and

691
00:34:05,870 --> 00:34:02,940
recently there's a band who has asked me

692
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:05,880
to join them who are called the Voodoo

693
00:34:13,580 --> 00:34:08,970
trombone quartet they're kind of

694
00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:13,590
well-known they it's scar and it's a

695
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:18,350
sort of a new eclectic form of scar and

696
00:34:27,580 --> 00:34:22,050
the music area is on Ugly Betty and on

697
00:34:29,870 --> 00:34:27,590
being human and on MTV and various

698
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:29,880
various TV shows I don't know if you

699
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:32,720
know those ones but you know it's it's

700
00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:36,000
well-received music and it was

701
00:34:41,630 --> 00:34:38,040
originally a sort of studio band but now

702
00:34:44,420 --> 00:34:41,640
it's going live and so we have gigs all

703
00:34:47,330 --> 00:34:44,430
year which is great including the V

704
00:34:50,180 --> 00:34:47,340
Festival be heard a big chill and

705
00:34:53,180 --> 00:34:50,190
Glastonbury which will all be funny yeah

706
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:53,190
so that's it and I get to go out and

707
00:34:57,650 --> 00:34:54,690
play that sort of music which I'm

708
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:57,660
completely loving loving doing and

709
00:35:03,290 --> 00:35:00,240
actually that's a interesting thing is

710
00:35:04,829 --> 00:35:03,300
that what's so called simple music like

711
00:35:06,569 --> 00:35:04,839
scar and rock I

712
00:35:09,209 --> 00:35:06,579
don't think of simple as tall I just

713
00:35:12,479 --> 00:35:09,219
don't think people people try and fit it

714
00:35:14,819 --> 00:35:12,489
into a classical analysis and miss all

715
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:14,829
the good stuff every all music has is

716
00:35:21,509 --> 00:35:18,249
equally valid and equally is an equal

717
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:21,519
opportunity to be of deep musical

718
00:35:32,330 --> 00:35:58,390
you

719
00:36:04,660 --> 00:36:01,599
and what else do I have I've got oh I

720
00:36:08,319 --> 00:36:04,670
work with her a great young cellist

721
00:36:11,319 --> 00:36:08,329
called Peter Gregson who's on George

722
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:11,329
Reeves album he is on his small comfort

723
00:36:20,980 --> 00:36:17,890
track and we do very interesting

724
00:36:22,930 --> 00:36:20,990
electronics and shallow live performanc

725
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:22,940
it's sort of crossover classical

726
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:25,130
electronic stuff I think it's very very

727
00:36:30,370 --> 00:36:27,920
beautiful and we've got several

728
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:30,380
performances lined up in concert halls

729
00:36:37,180 --> 00:36:33,490
this year last year i did this great

730
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:37,190
documentary on caffeine which was a and

731
00:36:42,549 --> 00:36:39,970
it was a planetarium movie which

732
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:42,559
followed the path of a caffeine molecule

733
00:36:48,099 --> 00:36:44,930
huber through the human body that's

734
00:36:51,549 --> 00:36:48,109
amazing computer-animated planetarium

735
00:36:53,289 --> 00:36:51,559
movie and it and you fart and you follow

736
00:36:55,529 --> 00:36:53,299
this caffeine molecule until it docks

737
00:36:58,930 --> 00:36:55,539
with the newer and receptor in the brain

738
00:37:01,120 --> 00:36:58,940
causing a mild euphoria and it was

739
00:37:02,859 --> 00:37:01,130
absolutely wonderful and perfect for me

740
00:37:06,940 --> 00:37:02,869
because I got to learn about it ended

741
00:37:08,769 --> 00:37:06,950
cool sounds for it and it was premiered

742
00:37:11,710 --> 00:37:08,779
at the British Science Festival last

743
00:37:13,740 --> 00:37:11,720
year but now it's apparently going out

744
00:37:16,359 --> 00:37:13,750
internationally and it's going to go to

745
00:37:19,569 --> 00:37:16,369
Australia I've just heard Oh wonderful

746
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:19,579
and as there's a place close to to

747
00:37:26,829 --> 00:37:23,170
Sydney it sounds like a comedy named

748
00:37:29,410 --> 00:37:26,839
Willa Gong Gong would work wollongong

749
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:29,420
yeah it's that is that place that is

750
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:31,250
indeed a place well that might be that

751
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:33,470
one I think it sounds pretty close I

752
00:37:38,319 --> 00:37:35,680
know and that's really exciting of it

753
00:37:41,650 --> 00:37:38,329
people get to see that because that was

754
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:41,660
a that was a lot of fun enough recently

755
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:44,450
I did an album with a friend of mine

756
00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:45,770
which was a blend of jazz and

757
00:37:50,319 --> 00:37:47,839
electronics and that's being signed to

758
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:50,329
divil wolf records and they want another

759
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:52,720
album so that's going to take up my time

760
00:37:58,900 --> 00:37:55,970
what else I just finished the tam tam

761
00:38:01,809 --> 00:37:58,910
London DVD for DVD I just scored that

762
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:01,819
and that's coming out soon very soon so

763
00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:05,040
you'll get to see or what happened there

764
00:38:18,489 --> 00:38:16,809
to learn more about Milton's ongoing

765
00:38:22,749 --> 00:38:18,499
adventures you can head to his official

766
00:38:24,609 --> 00:38:22,759
site at milk central com that will lead

767
00:38:27,940 --> 00:38:24,619
you both to his blog and the site that

768
00:38:33,450 --> 00:38:27,950
beaches all of these projects you can

769
00:39:36,940 --> 00:38:33,460
follow his Twitter's on wwe.com board /

770
00:39:43,250 --> 00:39:39,549
terrorism conspiracy theories and the

771
00:39:46,579 --> 00:39:43,260
1979 Sydney Hilton bombing Lockerbie

772
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:46,589
bombing the 911 and London 77 bombings

773
00:39:51,410 --> 00:39:48,960
will be covered in a talk by adjunct

774
00:39:54,109 --> 00:39:51,420
professor Clive Williams this is a free

775
00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:54,119
talk going to be held in the acct here

776
00:39:58,339 --> 00:39:55,740
in Australia the Australian Capital

777
00:40:02,690 --> 00:39:58,349
Territory Monday the fifteenth of March

778
00:40:06,529 --> 00:40:02,700
2010 6 p.m. til 730 p.m. at the Finkel

779
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:06,539
theater John Curtin school of medical

780
00:40:12,349 --> 00:40:09,359
research this is being held by the

781
00:40:14,839 --> 00:40:12,359
Canberra skeptics and the ANU strategic

782
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:14,849
and defence studies centre sounds like a

783
00:40:21,519 --> 00:40:18,000
fascinating talk and you can find out

784
00:40:24,289 --> 00:40:21,529
more by dropping an email to a CT one

785
00:40:33,260 --> 00:40:24,299
and so that's a CT numeral one at

786
00:40:39,060 --> 00:40:36,090
this is desirae host of Canadian radio

787
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:39,070
show skeptically speaking so those of

788
00:40:43,620 --> 00:40:41,200
you that don't know Kenneth is quite

789
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:43,630
similar to Australia people know is

790
00:40:49,010 --> 00:40:46,000
primarily for our weather in our beer

791
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:49,020
and we have a queen just like you do

792
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:53,170
same one as you do actually we also have

793
00:40:57,660 --> 00:40:55,330
mythical monsters and people who think

794
00:40:59,130 --> 00:40:57,670
they have psychic abilities and people

795
00:41:02,070 --> 00:40:59,140
who think that vaccinations are bad for

796
00:41:04,170 --> 00:41:02,080
you so keep listening to the skeptic

797
00:41:10,770 --> 00:41:04,180
zone and know that we're all in this

798
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:10,780
together join us now for drinking

799
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:22,510
skeptically in the think tank to city

800
00:41:31,740 --> 00:41:27,520
you go read as a good Diane you start

801
00:41:34,350 --> 00:41:31,750
everything around here I think do look

802
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:34,360
you've gone bright red and game but i'd

803
00:41:39,210 --> 00:41:36,400
like to welcome you diane to the think

804
00:41:41,940 --> 00:41:39,220
tank hello thank you Richard and hello

805
00:41:44,370 --> 00:41:41,950
Iran hello Richard I'm already you're

806
00:41:47,730 --> 00:41:44,380
not ready no you're sort of a pinky sort

807
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:47,740
of fleshy sort of oh yeah okay Joanne

808
00:41:53,790 --> 00:41:51,490
venom ooh pirate soon I and hello dr. H

809
00:41:55,980 --> 00:41:53,800
E hello Richard and hello to myself

810
00:41:57,300 --> 00:41:55,990
hello ever guess hello Richard cheers

811
00:42:02,700 --> 00:41:57,310
everybody welcome to the thing think

812
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:02,710
again lovely mmm Diet Coke today hmm

813
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:04,450
doesn't that have high fructose in it

814
00:42:09,740 --> 00:42:07,210
which it doesn't great tink it does is

815
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:09,750
that a bad thing yes it's poisonous or

816
00:42:15,420 --> 00:42:13,330
it's a miracle we're all alive is nice

817
00:42:17,580 --> 00:42:15,430
think that every morning now listen

818
00:42:21,750 --> 00:42:17,590
before we get good going let me just say

819
00:42:25,230 --> 00:42:21,760
that what a pleasure it was to come

820
00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:25,240
along and support dr. hu yesterday we

821
00:42:31,110 --> 00:42:28,000
recorded this yesterday ABC radio here

822
00:42:33,150 --> 00:42:31,120
in Sydney interviewed dr. H E as part of

823
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:33,160
a show called

824
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:35,530
so Chanel in conversation conversations

825
00:42:39,930 --> 00:42:38,319
with richard 5 i'm richard fidler and

826
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:39,940
i'll put a link on the show notes but if

827
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:42,490
you if listeners go to the ABC website

828
00:42:49,799 --> 00:42:46,530
in australia which is ABCD net day you

829
00:42:52,020 --> 00:42:49,809
and look for radio in conversations with

830
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:52,030
richard pilot you can download the whole

831
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:53,770
interview with dr. hu which i thought

832
00:42:58,440 --> 00:42:55,930
was really good rich and fat louis belt

833
00:43:00,720 --> 00:42:58,450
if i do you I think that's correct dear

834
00:43:03,900 --> 00:43:00,730
yeah and in fact I'll just play a little

835
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:03,910
segment from it now Rachel week let's

836
00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:05,530
talk about your role as a kind of public

837
00:43:08,789 --> 00:43:07,390
skeptic in in refuting what you see to

838
00:43:11,579 --> 00:43:08,799
be as unscientific claims I got an email

839
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:11,589
yesterday from Tony and David McCaffrey

840
00:43:14,609 --> 00:43:13,510
and I've just paraphrase it they send me

841
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:14,619
this lovely email saying we understand

842
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:16,000
you're interviewing dr. Rachel Dunlop

843
00:43:21,150 --> 00:43:19,089
tomorrow to us rachel is a superhero our

844
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:21,160
baby daughter Donna died from pertussis

845
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:24,490
or whooping cough on 9th of March 2009

846
00:43:27,299 --> 00:43:25,990
after being airlifted from lismore base

847
00:43:28,980 --> 00:43:27,309
hospital to the Brisbane Marta

848
00:43:31,380 --> 00:43:28,990
children's pediatric intensive care unit

849
00:43:32,819 --> 00:43:31,390
we understand she was one of four babies

850
00:43:34,859 --> 00:43:32,829
airlifted from this area jingle during

851
00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:34,869
one of the worst medusa's epidemics on

852
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:37,119
record we spoke up to warn other parents

853
00:43:40,410 --> 00:43:38,890
they wrote because we were never warned

854
00:43:41,849 --> 00:43:40,420
but we were absolutely shocked at the

855
00:43:43,799 --> 00:43:41,859
vitriol and lunacy that we were

856
00:43:45,870 --> 00:43:43,809
subjected to as a result if it were not

857
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:45,880
for dr. rachey as you know sometimes in

858
00:43:49,859 --> 00:43:47,770
the Australian skeptics we would still

859
00:43:51,089 --> 00:43:49,869
be curled up in a corner but their care

860
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:51,099
and support has helped us to start

861
00:43:55,799 --> 00:43:53,890
living again they say we praise and

862
00:43:56,910 --> 00:43:55,809
thank Rachel for her unerring dedication

863
00:43:59,069 --> 00:43:56,920
to give parents the facts about

864
00:44:01,980 --> 00:43:59,079
vaccinations and other medical issues

865
00:44:05,819 --> 00:44:01,990
and she is also an exceptionally caring

866
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:05,829
person to boot is that nice this is an

867
00:44:10,170 --> 00:44:07,119
important problem it wasn't that lovely

868
00:44:13,279 --> 00:44:10,180
of them it was lovely and yesterday was

869
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:13,289
actually the first anniversary of data

870
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:16,210
so it was appropriate and yes the knows

871
00:44:20,849 --> 00:44:18,640
that I was interviewed about this issue

872
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:20,859
yesterday yeah I thought I thought that

873
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:23,410
was that was wonderful so yes listeners

874
00:44:26,730 --> 00:44:24,880
please if you want to hear the full

875
00:44:29,220 --> 00:44:26,740
interview of dr. a she you know where to

876
00:44:31,710 --> 00:44:29,230
get it from the ABC website and I'm sure

877
00:44:33,779 --> 00:44:31,720
you'll enjoy listening to that as much

878
00:44:34,690 --> 00:44:33,789
as I enjoyed hearing it live in the

879
00:44:36,609 --> 00:44:34,700
studio it was

880
00:44:39,069 --> 00:44:36,619
was live yet it wasn't which is

881
00:44:41,710 --> 00:44:39,079
sometimes it did scare you but uh no why

882
00:44:44,050 --> 00:44:41,720
I'm gonna roll here now quickly mention

883
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:44,060
that Richard Dawkins is in town and he's

884
00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:45,770
heading for Melbourne and but he's

885
00:44:49,359 --> 00:44:47,089
already enough he's here already in

886
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:49,369
Melbourne is he ok but last last night

887
00:44:54,220 --> 00:44:52,089
no the night before last ok no no no no

888
00:44:56,710 --> 00:44:54,230
we're recording this on a Wednesday so

889
00:45:01,450 --> 00:44:56,720
it was Monday night he was on a national

890
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:01,460
program called Q&A which is a live panel

891
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:06,530
show and they had also sitting next to

892
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:09,530
him the parliamentary member Britain as

893
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:11,450
a senator I'm sorry senator stephen

894
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:14,089
fielding from the family firm is trista

895
00:45:22,450 --> 00:45:20,570
pardey representing 57,000 50 6735 or

896
00:45:25,900 --> 00:45:22,460
something they're about primary votes

897
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:25,910
which is not a lot not a lot but it but

898
00:45:30,609 --> 00:45:28,160
Richard Dawkins soon flushed him out as

899
00:45:32,620 --> 00:45:30,619
a young ocean earth creationist and the

900
00:45:35,290 --> 00:45:32,630
look on Richard Dawkins spaces he's a

901
00:45:37,950 --> 00:45:35,300
parliamentarian good look on several

902
00:45:40,510 --> 00:45:37,960
people's faces that night was priceless

903
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:40,520
are you taking talking about Julie

904
00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:43,730
Bishop I her child this joy I am yeah

905
00:45:48,250 --> 00:45:46,640
well funnily enough what people tend to

906
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:48,260
do when they watch the show is get on

907
00:45:54,130 --> 00:45:51,170
Twitter and tweet and then hashtagit and

908
00:45:56,970 --> 00:45:54,140
the director of the ABC tweeters and

909
00:46:00,849 --> 00:45:56,980
statistics about monday night show today

910
00:46:03,130 --> 00:46:00,859
and he said that in America lost his

911
00:46:04,510 --> 00:46:03,140
watched by 10 million people and the

912
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:04,520
recent episode there was something like

913
00:46:15,250 --> 00:46:12,099
450,000 people watched and there was

914
00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:15,260
something like six to five thousand 6500

915
00:46:20,890 --> 00:46:17,839
tweets which works out to be about a

916
00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:20,900
tenfold mmm the greater amount so i was

917
00:46:27,810 --> 00:46:24,430
i was involved in it you were you were

918
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:27,820
yeah you two doing yes I mean it became

919
00:46:33,810 --> 00:46:31,200
a meme pretty quickly when Julie Bishop

920
00:46:36,540 --> 00:46:33,820
did that death stare down the barrel I

921
00:46:38,490 --> 00:46:36,550
just say I never mind I if I ever need

922
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:38,500
sharks with laser beams on drugs i'm

923
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:43,090
calling now i don't know if that's going

924
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:46,570
to be available online as a list of

925
00:46:50,610 --> 00:46:48,400
listeners in australia couldn't go into

926
00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:50,620
the ABC website again and go to the eye

927
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:52,560
view I think you can download it

928
00:46:56,940 --> 00:46:55,330
probably good cause can I guess I think

929
00:46:59,130 --> 00:46:56,950
you may be able to get a visual ISM as a

930
00:47:01,260 --> 00:46:59,140
pod sort of a podcast type download or

931
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:01,270
even download it from you my Q&A I'm the

932
00:47:04,980 --> 00:47:03,250
ABC with Richard Dawkins and a whole

933
00:47:07,830 --> 00:47:04,990
host of other people very very

934
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:07,840
entertaining very entertaining and

935
00:47:15,060 --> 00:47:10,770
actually Richard that episode of QA was

936
00:47:18,060 --> 00:47:15,070
preceded by a very interesting expose of

937
00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:18,070
Scientology on the ABC show four corners

938
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:20,560
you guys all saw that he was all

939
00:47:25,350 --> 00:47:22,330
together very good you need to be a

940
00:47:28,740 --> 00:47:25,360
skeptic it was it was quite a damning

941
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:28,750
insight into Scientology i must say i

942
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:30,250
love us say it wasn't i don't think

943
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:31,810
there was anything from the perspective

944
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:33,370
of people who know about the shenanigans

945
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:35,440
of Scientology i don't think there was

946
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:38,800
anything new there mmm i mean there were

947
00:47:41,790 --> 00:47:40,480
purchased some some personal stories

948
00:47:44,970 --> 00:47:41,800
will you but in terms of what they do

949
00:47:48,660 --> 00:47:44,980
the methods that the internals yams the

950
00:47:51,780 --> 00:47:48,670
the corruption the car trips all those

951
00:47:53,490 --> 00:47:51,790
things you know well now the masquerade

952
00:47:55,890 --> 00:47:53,500
teachers are religious i was pleased to

953
00:47:58,350 --> 00:47:55,900
you this morning that you know a lot of

954
00:48:00,570 --> 00:47:58,360
the focus that the

955
00:48:01,950 --> 00:48:00,580
that for example makes an apartment

956
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:01,960
other people have been looking at the

957
00:48:06,930 --> 00:48:03,810
moment of being about some of the

958
00:48:08,940 --> 00:48:06,940
financial dealings and so on some other

959
00:48:11,850 --> 00:48:08,950
Church of Scientology but Phillip

960
00:48:13,710 --> 00:48:11,860
majority this morning wanting a lot of a

961
00:48:16,410 --> 00:48:13,720
lot more focus we put on some of the

962
00:48:19,290 --> 00:48:16,420
dangerous psychological practices and

963
00:48:22,590 --> 00:48:19,300
that attacks that Scientologist make on

964
00:48:24,180 --> 00:48:22,600
psychiatry which i think is a good area

965
00:48:25,830 --> 00:48:24,190
of thing to be looking at it well yeah

966
00:48:27,690 --> 00:48:25,840
they issued a press release about that

967
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:27,700
today Joe which dave the heavy singer

968
00:48:34,830 --> 00:48:31,450
sent around to me earlier today he's not

969
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:34,840
here today no will you stay here mama

970
00:48:38,220 --> 00:48:36,730
big bump the Big Pharma's doing

971
00:48:40,110 --> 00:48:38,230
something else and he made the

972
00:48:43,050 --> 00:48:40,120
observation from this press release that

973
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:43,060
some of the language and the tone and

974
00:48:47,250 --> 00:48:45,040
the sort of structure is quite similar

975
00:48:50,700 --> 00:48:47,260
to something you might see from say the

976
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:50,710
anti-vaccination lobby so his suggestion

977
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:52,210
was that perhaps the anti-vaccination

978
00:48:57,660 --> 00:48:54,370
what we do tend to behave a little bit

979
00:48:59,190 --> 00:48:57,670
like a cult hmm I'm just going to give

980
00:49:02,130 --> 00:48:59,200
you one example of a sentence that was

981
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:02,140
in this press release and I want you to

982
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:06,850
substitute psychiatric drugs and the

983
00:49:11,850 --> 00:49:09,850
other problems with vaccinations so have

984
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:11,860
a listen to this I'll read you their

985
00:49:16,770 --> 00:49:14,890
version and then I'll substitute we

986
00:49:18,930 --> 00:49:16,780
support parents rights to be fully

987
00:49:20,850 --> 00:49:18,940
informed about adverse reactions to

988
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:20,860
psychiatric drugs including heart

989
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:23,680
problems and suicidal behavior so they

990
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:25,510
can decide for themselves about any

991
00:49:31,650 --> 00:49:27,280
treatment proposed for their families

992
00:49:35,730 --> 00:49:31,660
mr. Brooks said whether it be nice

993
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:35,740
can I do it anyway we've support parents

994
00:49:40,109 --> 00:49:37,930
right to be fully informed about adverse

995
00:49:42,450 --> 00:49:40,119
reactions to vaccination including

996
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:42,460
autism and seeds so they can decide for

997
00:49:48,740 --> 00:49:44,170
themselves about any treatment proposed

998
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:51,870
what do you think about that I mean

999
00:49:54,420 --> 00:49:53,200
that's stuck all through this press

1000
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:54,430
release that you could just easily

1001
00:50:00,930 --> 00:49:56,650
change the words and it's the same thing

1002
00:50:04,260 --> 00:50:00,940
it's so many money now yeah where's the

1003
00:50:07,410 --> 00:50:04,270
donate link now just to remind long-term

1004
00:50:09,359 --> 00:50:07,420
think tank fans out there head that for

1005
00:50:11,190 --> 00:50:09,369
many months we were in our own sort of

1006
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:11,200
semi-private room but now we're sort of

1007
00:50:18,359 --> 00:50:14,609
in the back part of a Chinese restroom

1008
00:50:20,010 --> 00:50:18,369
the next part of a choice if that's the

1009
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:20,020
front as we're looking over there this

1010
00:50:24,450 --> 00:50:22,210
must be the back makes it so that we're

1011
00:50:31,140 --> 00:50:24,460
in some seedy in a town without the back

1012
00:50:33,569 --> 00:50:31,150
of the crates well finally let me just

1013
00:50:36,420 --> 00:50:33,579
let everybody know and those Australian

1014
00:50:38,370 --> 00:50:36,430
listeners and maybe international who

1015
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:38,380
subscribed to our magazine or the

1016
00:50:45,539 --> 00:50:39,910
magazine of Australian skeptics i should

1017
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:45,549
say verte skeptic volume 30 Wow number

1018
00:50:50,670 --> 00:50:47,920
one so it's been going for 30 years of

1019
00:50:52,650 --> 00:50:50,680
the skeptic I've just received mine in

1020
00:50:54,839 --> 00:50:52,660
the post today so lots of good stuff in

1021
00:50:56,970 --> 00:50:54,849
there actually can I just make a point

1022
00:50:59,849 --> 00:50:56,980
there's one article in here which around

1023
00:51:01,799 --> 00:50:59,859
and I were discussing over dinner can

1024
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:01,809
you flip to it cuz order yeah i'm just

1025
00:51:05,579 --> 00:51:03,520
gonna dance about the air it's about

1026
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:05,589
it's a critique of the book sweet poison

1027
00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:11,890
yep miss ARLA have we discussed no

1028
00:51:14,940 --> 00:51:13,089
I think we have maybe we should just

1029
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:14,950
quickly mention what happened there yeah

1030
00:51:21,359 --> 00:51:18,880
maybe yeah so David Gillespie road so

1031
00:51:25,579 --> 00:51:21,369
he's a lawyer or next lawyer and he

1032
00:51:29,329 --> 00:51:25,589
wrote a book about but fructose

1033
00:51:31,620 --> 00:51:29,339
basically suggesting that the source of

1034
00:51:34,799 --> 00:51:31,630
moment pretty much all health problems

1035
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:34,809
is cruisers but he was I think it was to

1036
00:51:39,329 --> 00:51:36,490
be very fair he was definitely talking

1037
00:51:40,859 --> 00:51:39,339
about obesity where he was he made a

1038
00:51:42,809 --> 00:51:40,869
point about lots of other ones but let's

1039
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:42,819
focus on obesity basically he said that

1040
00:51:50,609 --> 00:51:47,970
the obesity epidemic is due to increased

1041
00:51:52,980 --> 00:51:50,619
consumption of fructose and he made all

1042
00:51:55,170 --> 00:51:52,990
kinds of statements like it's it's

1043
00:51:57,870 --> 00:51:55,180
systemic poisoning it's a miracle that

1044
00:52:00,000 --> 00:51:57,880
we were still alive in light of SS

1045
00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:00,010
poisoning and he was a speaker at our

1046
00:52:05,009 --> 00:52:01,569
national convention in November last

1047
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:05,019
year yeah and I I didn't know anything

1048
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:08,079
about nothing many of us know I just

1049
00:52:12,359 --> 00:52:09,130
worry about what he was going to talk

1050
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:12,369
about and I actually heard heard

1051
00:52:15,390 --> 00:52:14,170
something about it previously i think i

1052
00:52:17,490 --> 00:52:15,400
might even heard his Occam's razor

1053
00:52:20,370 --> 00:52:17,500
please because he was on ABC Radio

1054
00:52:22,259 --> 00:52:20,380
National general cuz razor now thought

1055
00:52:23,490 --> 00:52:22,269
he had an interesting interesting point

1056
00:52:25,859 --> 00:52:23,500
of view and it's something interesting

1057
00:52:27,930 --> 00:52:25,869
to say but then he talked for about 45

1058
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:27,940
minutes and it became abundantly clear

1059
00:52:32,609 --> 00:52:30,480
that he knew absolutely nothing about

1060
00:52:34,650 --> 00:52:32,619
what he was talking about it was quite

1061
00:52:36,539 --> 00:52:34,660
clear just from the examples it was

1062
00:52:38,370 --> 00:52:36,549
giving giving from the graphs from the

1063
00:52:40,170 --> 00:52:38,380
way he was presenting from the language

1064
00:52:41,819 --> 00:52:40,180
he was using it was quite clear that he

1065
00:52:43,740 --> 00:52:41,829
was a conspiracy theorist with no

1066
00:52:45,299 --> 00:52:43,750
knowledge of not just of these signs but

1067
00:52:47,940 --> 00:52:45,309
no knowledge of what science is all

1068
00:52:51,779 --> 00:52:47,950
about us all and rach and I questioned

1069
00:52:53,730 --> 00:52:51,789
him about about review about whether his

1070
00:52:55,650 --> 00:52:53,740
work has been reviewed and he turned out

1071
00:52:59,549 --> 00:52:55,660
that he was reviewed by two people one

1072
00:53:01,109 --> 00:52:59,559
of them who is his father in law and in

1073
00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:01,119
a medical doctor and the other one is

1074
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:05,049
the scientist who is known to be a

1075
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:08,170
promoter of this point of view so David

1076
00:53:11,759 --> 00:53:10,480
Gillespie might be a great lawyer but he

1077
00:53:14,550 --> 00:53:11,769
doesn't understand that in science you

1078
00:53:16,740 --> 00:53:14,560
the people you show you work to them

1079
00:53:18,540 --> 00:53:16,750
dude Joe it reviewed are the people who

1080
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:18,550
disagree with you not the people who

1081
00:53:22,650 --> 00:53:20,290
agree with you otherwise it's it's

1082
00:53:24,510 --> 00:53:22,660
meaningless knew he was meaningless can

1083
00:53:27,180 --> 00:53:24,520
I just interrupt first on top of that he

1084
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:27,190
presented the case as like a legal case

1085
00:53:32,670 --> 00:53:30,370
didn't he he had his at the beginning he

1086
00:53:34,140 --> 00:53:32,680
said fructose is a poison it's the cause

1087
00:53:36,270 --> 00:53:34,150
of a lot of health problems is he cause

1088
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:36,280
of obesity and here's the evidence to

1089
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:39,040
support that instead of the way science

1090
00:53:44,370 --> 00:53:41,650
works where you make observations you

1091
00:53:46,380 --> 00:53:44,380
look at a large body of work and then

1092
00:53:48,180 --> 00:53:46,390
you work out what the consensus is from

1093
00:53:50,370 --> 00:53:48,190
that or even if you have a null

1094
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:50,380
hypothesis he didn't conduct any of his

1095
00:53:53,850 --> 00:53:51,970
own research so he couldn't have a null

1096
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:53,860
hypothesis but what you would sometimes

1097
00:53:59,790 --> 00:53:56,650
doing science is work out hypothesis but

1098
00:54:01,500 --> 00:53:59,800
then you try to prove it but it's not

1099
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:01,510
wrong they try and disprove is rather

1100
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:03,370
than proving you know basically what

1101
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:05,890
happened was that later on Chris Forbes

1102
00:54:16,190 --> 00:54:12,730
you and a nutritionist from Tasmania he

1103
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:16,200
did a caucus-race a piece that refuted

1104
00:54:21,420 --> 00:54:18,910
no Occam's razor is also welcomes razor

1105
00:54:23,550 --> 00:54:21,430
it's basically a radio ABC radio he did

1106
00:54:26,460 --> 00:54:23,560
an equivalent piece on Occam's razor

1107
00:54:29,100 --> 00:54:26,470
that refuted a lot of words David

1108
00:54:31,350 --> 00:54:29,110
Gillespie said so while I thought that

1109
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:31,360
the problem with David Gillespie was

1110
00:54:34,530 --> 00:54:33,280
that it was not even wrong because there

1111
00:54:36,110 --> 00:54:34,540
was no way to judge whether it was right

1112
00:54:39,060 --> 00:54:36,120
or wrong unless you were a specialist

1113
00:54:41,340 --> 00:54:39,070
chris is a specialist and he reviewed

1114
00:54:45,060 --> 00:54:41,350
the work and basically shown that not

1115
00:54:47,220 --> 00:54:45,070
only is David wrong he also was and not

1116
00:54:50,010 --> 00:54:47,230
only was he not understanding the

1117
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:50,020
science he also was cherry picking and

1118
00:54:54,900 --> 00:54:52,210
and doing all kinds of things that

1119
00:54:59,220 --> 00:54:54,910
inside science are considered a big

1120
00:55:01,320 --> 00:54:59,230
no-no so i contacted chris and i seem to

1121
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:01,330
write an article in a great article for

1122
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:03,040
the skeptic i think it's worth

1123
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:06,730
mentioning to that you and i both we are

1124
00:55:10,350 --> 00:55:08,530
several of us asked questions of David

1125
00:55:12,810 --> 00:55:10,360
after presentation

1126
00:55:15,780 --> 00:55:12,820
but having not been familiar with his

1127
00:55:17,790 --> 00:55:15,790
work before and not having read the book

1128
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:17,800
I was just best asking him based on his

1129
00:55:21,900 --> 00:55:20,170
presentation at the time and we were

1130
00:55:24,090 --> 00:55:21,910
talking about is a methodology rug yeah

1131
00:55:26,100 --> 00:55:24,100
this specific topic was again we were

1132
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:26,110
unable to judge whether it was right yes

1133
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:28,000
but he he didn't really appreciate that

1134
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:30,730
and he took that as a as a personal

1135
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:33,610
decision rather than in science where

1136
00:55:37,260 --> 00:55:35,410
you were critiqued and that's the point

1137
00:55:40,050 --> 00:55:37,270
and that's why how science is so

1138
00:55:43,470 --> 00:55:40,060
correcting and then got on Twitter and

1139
00:55:45,330 --> 00:55:43,480
send us you know a lot of tweaked

1140
00:55:48,330 --> 00:55:45,340
messages basically saying you're wrong

1141
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:48,340
you're wrong you're wrong but I just

1142
00:55:54,450 --> 00:55:50,170
wanted to point out in this article that

1143
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:54,460
Chris Forbes you and has written he went

1144
00:55:57,990 --> 00:55:55,930
through the book he read the book he

1145
00:56:01,040 --> 00:55:58,000
went through the claims he found one of

1146
00:56:04,890 --> 00:56:01,050
the major claims made by Gillespie was

1147
00:56:08,490 --> 00:56:04,900
based on a 1985 study and that was

1148
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:08,500
showing that there was about fructose

1149
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:11,010
feeding in humans and he claimed that

1150
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:13,450
this was causing a lot of problems and

1151
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:15,010
so after that there were no more studies

1152
00:56:21,060 --> 00:56:17,730
feeding fructose to humans only two rats

1153
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:21,070
so Chris warts Evans did a simple pubmed

1154
00:56:25,860 --> 00:56:22,930
search which were all able to do and he

1155
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:25,870
found that since 1985 there have been 19

1156
00:56:33,390 --> 00:56:30,160
other studies showing that humans have

1157
00:56:34,770 --> 00:56:33,400
been fed high levels of fructose so from

1158
00:56:36,270 --> 00:56:34,780
the year nineteen eighty-five to the

1159
00:56:39,060 --> 00:56:36,280
year 2008 when this book was published

1160
00:56:40,890 --> 00:56:39,070
there were 19 other studies that David

1161
00:56:43,050 --> 00:56:40,900
Gillespie just didn't like the results

1162
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:43,060
of so just didn't include them in his in

1163
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:44,640
his argument just to reiterate

1164
00:56:54,540 --> 00:56:51,210
oh it's that front fructose is a

1165
00:56:57,330 --> 00:56:54,550
poisonous Boyd it's a leading cause of

1166
00:56:59,430 --> 00:56:57,340
obesity lots of other health that's what

1167
00:57:03,630 --> 00:56:59,440
I got from his talk was we're all fat

1168
00:57:06,660 --> 00:57:03,640
now where's that I can I'm all fat I'm

1169
00:57:10,290 --> 00:57:06,670
fat because of the fruit it's not your

1170
00:57:14,010 --> 00:57:10,300
fault it's not my fault but anyway this

1171
00:57:17,250 --> 00:57:14,020
article is in the this skeptic yes your

1172
00:57:20,550 --> 00:57:17,260
issue 30 issue number one page it's a

1173
00:57:21,900 --> 00:57:20,560
really really thorough analysis critique

1174
00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:21,910
of the book and I recommend that you

1175
00:57:27,870 --> 00:57:25,390
subscribe oh you can read it and add

1176
00:57:30,750 --> 00:57:27,880
dear listeners there's also a little

1177
00:57:33,830 --> 00:57:30,760
story report by me which has been

1178
00:57:37,050 --> 00:57:33,840
reproduced on the skeptics website

1179
00:57:40,830 --> 00:57:37,060
wwwdcom day you with my adventures with

1180
00:57:45,090 --> 00:57:40,840
the body testing the kinesiology how

1181
00:57:46,650 --> 00:57:45,100
balanced and fusion XL and all that sort

1182
00:57:49,380 --> 00:57:46,660
of stuff so that might be interesting

1183
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:49,390
for you to look at Joe highlight a Joe

1184
00:57:54,300 --> 00:57:51,730
we should call you I later I load a joke

1185
00:57:56,940 --> 00:57:54,310
I've left my trusty think of rainbow

1186
00:57:59,060 --> 00:57:56,950
highlighters at home this time so is

1187
00:58:02,810 --> 00:57:59,070
that why it's all the same is yellow

1188
00:58:05,070 --> 00:58:02,820
highlight our life source Jim a

1189
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:05,080
gentleman by the name of sean david

1190
00:58:10,380 --> 00:58:07,450
morton who calls himself america's

1191
00:58:12,900 --> 00:58:10,390
profit and claims to be a psychic

1192
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:12,910
trained by Nepalese monks in the art of

1193
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:23,410
time travel mix story that's um mr.

1194
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:25,210
Morton times even he can foretell the

1195
00:58:34,170 --> 00:58:28,090
future stock market yeah that's what I

1196
00:58:36,450 --> 00:58:34,180
will in the profit thank you on you can

1197
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:36,460
go home now sir yes should we just end

1198
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:38,290
there yes you I think that's good night

1199
00:58:42,330 --> 00:58:40,450
so he tends to be the modern day

1200
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:42,340
Nostradamus and the depth of the Dalai

1201
00:58:46,990 --> 00:58:44,410
Lama said that's actually probably not

1202
00:58:49,700 --> 00:58:47,000
all of them the truth

1203
00:58:51,140 --> 00:58:49,710
we're a fusion of Eastern spirituality

1204
00:58:52,700 --> 00:58:51,150
and Western psychic techniques has

1205
00:58:55,940 --> 00:58:52,710
helped him develop the spiritual remote

1206
00:58:58,280 --> 00:58:55,950
viewing system he claims well he says

1207
00:59:00,349 --> 00:58:58,290
that he grew up in Texas and he's dinner

1208
00:59:02,359 --> 00:59:00,359
table companions as his parents work for

1209
00:59:04,300 --> 00:59:02,369
NASA were astronauts who told him of

1210
00:59:06,830 --> 00:59:04,310
their sightings of extraterrestrial life

1211
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:06,840
I'm now honey can I stop you for a

1212
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:08,880
second you see when somebody says

1213
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:10,050
something when somebody gets to the

1214
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:11,690
point where they say something that is

1215
00:59:18,410 --> 00:59:16,530
so clearly demonstrably wrong I mean

1216
00:59:20,750 --> 00:59:18,420
this is I'm talking about the yeah as

1217
00:59:22,130 --> 00:59:20,760
from the parents that immediate leads me

1218
00:59:26,450 --> 00:59:22,140
to the conclusion that this person is

1219
00:59:27,650 --> 00:59:26,460
not healthy so I would say right you

1220
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:27,660
know this is not somebody who's there

1221
00:59:33,370 --> 00:59:29,760
just a intentional fraud he's not

1222
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:33,380
healthy well yeah you think so however

1223
00:59:41,810 --> 00:59:39,330
however he um he has a newsletter with

1224
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:41,820
20,000 subscribers run through his

1225
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:44,609
Delphie investment group and he claimed

1226
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:47,280
to be able to predict stock market as I

1227
00:59:52,609 --> 00:59:49,530
said claiming to get returns as high as

1228
00:59:56,060 --> 00:59:52,619
a hundred and seventeen percent what he

1229
00:59:58,280 --> 00:59:56,070
actually did well let me just say again

1230
01:00:00,380 --> 00:59:58,290
yeah he's been sued by the Securities

1231
01:00:02,420 --> 01:00:00,390
and Exchange Commission the securities

1232
01:00:04,490 --> 01:00:02,430
for fraud for swindling more than six

1233
01:00:06,530 --> 01:00:04,500
million dollars from investors read

1234
01:00:08,270 --> 01:00:06,540
after promising them piles of money

1235
01:00:10,430 --> 01:00:08,280
along with spiritual happiness what he

1236
01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:10,440
actually did was deposited only 3.2

1237
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:12,240
million dollars into the inter trading

1238
01:00:23,030 --> 01:00:21,500
that was a bus announcement now it was a

1239
01:00:26,329 --> 01:00:23,040
very quiet one but their one

1240
01:00:29,390 --> 01:00:26,339
nevertheless sorry that wasn't from the

1241
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:29,400
two marrickville now is the time not

1242
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:34,170
particularly um so it's basically he

1243
01:00:39,650 --> 01:00:35,970
swindled all of the subscribers out of

1244
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:39,660
it out of a lot of money and according

1245
01:00:49,190 --> 01:00:44,130
to the authorities he really is simply a

1246
01:00:50,690 --> 01:00:49,200
fraud and a very very bad psychic now

1247
01:00:52,339 --> 01:00:50,700
you've got a really say up to one

1248
01:00:54,559 --> 01:00:52,349
hundred seventeen percent after Herod

1249
01:00:57,349 --> 01:00:54,569
sandwiches I love that one hundred up to

1250
01:00:59,690 --> 01:00:57,359
you see I'm recently i sent an email to

1251
01:01:03,230 --> 01:00:59,700
several people about this up to thing

1252
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:03,240
because but i can't remember that the

1253
01:01:09,410 --> 01:01:07,890
range was from 22 was something

1254
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:09,420
like I can't really what he was

1255
01:01:15,740 --> 01:01:12,240
kilograms or whatever or percent so it

1256
01:01:17,870 --> 01:01:15,750
was something like from yeah two percent

1257
01:01:22,430 --> 01:01:17,880
all from two percent or less to six

1258
01:01:24,650 --> 01:01:22,440
percent or more something like that yeah

1259
01:01:26,870 --> 01:01:24,660
okay that pretty much covers it yep

1260
01:01:32,870 --> 01:01:26,880
that's like the honey obviously report

1261
01:01:34,700 --> 01:01:32,880
of you and now you've got a fishy story

1262
01:01:37,099 --> 01:01:34,710
I have a busy story which in fact some

1263
01:01:40,099 --> 01:01:37,109
of some of our listeners who also listen

1264
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:40,109
to st you would have heard already does

1265
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:49,910
you shouldn't do that on here yes yes

1266
01:01:57,140 --> 01:01:52,650
yes ahaha theater of the mind reader

1267
01:01:57,860 --> 01:01:57,150
Android choose okay you want to eat and

1268
01:02:01,800 --> 01:01:57,870
drink

1269
01:02:07,740 --> 01:02:01,810
I'm not gonna put that in the show I'm

1270
01:02:10,020 --> 01:02:07,750
mine anyway joke so at the end of debris

1271
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:10,030
it was reported that somewhere in the

1272
01:02:15,930 --> 01:02:12,970
middle of Australia to be specific at in

1273
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:15,940
a place called larger manner which we've

1274
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:16,960
all been struggling to pronounce

1275
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:20,290
correctly supposedly hundreds and

1276
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:22,090
hundreds of small white fish fell from

1277
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:24,730
the sky and those who heard yesterday

1278
01:02:30,270 --> 01:02:28,240
podcast would have heard that they bed

1279
01:02:34,590 --> 01:02:30,280
like Richard and Rachel to go out a new

1280
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:34,600
video gate this yes happy if if any of

1281
01:02:38,820 --> 01:02:36,400
our listeners would like to video

1282
01:02:42,330 --> 01:02:38,830
abilities the very northern territories

1283
01:02:43,710 --> 01:02:42,340
me it's uh between darling Ellis bring

1284
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:43,720
something you know that area well oh

1285
01:02:47,820 --> 01:02:45,910
wait a month dreams see it's only like

1286
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:47,830
what would only take about 24 hours to

1287
01:02:55,410 --> 01:02:51,280
get there if we drive yeah no no no we

1288
01:02:57,450 --> 01:02:55,420
took a plane it's a long way away please

1289
01:02:59,340 --> 01:02:57,460
yeah it lowered big two days driving

1290
01:03:00,810 --> 01:02:59,350
with me lately I would be here

1291
01:03:02,970 --> 01:03:00,820
interestingly apparently it's not the

1292
01:03:07,170 --> 01:03:02,980
best times has happened in this small

1293
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:07,180
community apparently in 1974 they had

1294
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:09,130
fallen from the sky or something similar

1295
01:03:14,190 --> 01:03:11,530
and the same in 2004 so it seems to be

1296
01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:14,200
so if we go there right and wait till it

1297
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:17,440
rains and walk around their mouth you

1298
01:03:23,250 --> 01:03:21,970
would never happen thinking 74 2010 all

1299
01:03:25,170 --> 01:03:23,260
you have to do is wait thirty six more

1300
01:03:26,550 --> 01:03:25,180
years yeah can you imagine if it

1301
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:26,560
happened during a lightning storm that

1302
01:03:31,630 --> 01:03:29,440
we cook the mission you could tell me

1303
01:03:34,450 --> 01:03:31,640
what else will you

1304
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:34,460
okay actually dried onion brian dunning

1305
01:03:38,170 --> 01:03:35,930
had a really good well the one day that

1306
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:38,180
they've often cited is the idea that a

1307
01:03:44,740 --> 01:03:40,850
tornado would something like that would

1308
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:44,750
pick up water and then wait a minute

1309
01:03:52,420 --> 01:03:49,130
later on a decision well no no according

1310
01:03:53,860 --> 01:03:52,430
to this article whether a senior

1311
01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:53,870
forecaster from the weather bureau said

1312
01:03:57,580 --> 01:03:55,280
the geological conditions were perfect

1313
01:03:59,170 --> 01:03:57,590
on that day for a tornado in that region

1314
01:04:04,710 --> 01:03:59,180
however they hadn't actually been in

1315
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:04,720
Europe but yeah I suspect that the

1316
01:04:09,580 --> 01:04:06,770
meteorologist who was asked about this

1317
01:04:11,980 --> 01:04:09,590
was asked how would the conditions yes

1318
01:04:15,550 --> 01:04:11,990
yes no no that's not whether there was

1319
01:04:17,110 --> 01:04:15,560
one yeah yeah the explanation that's so

1320
01:04:20,530 --> 01:04:17,120
far the most plausible is that these

1321
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:20,540
fish are able to sort of hide dehydrate

1322
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:22,400
themselves and basically under the cover

1323
01:04:25,690 --> 01:04:24,410
in the mud in the mud and then one that

1324
01:04:29,260 --> 01:04:25,700
rain after the rain you see all these

1325
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:29,270
fishes whopping about interesting but

1326
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:31,850
I'd love to go up there is that this too

1327
01:04:37,150 --> 01:04:33,650
is that do we have to go up the stuart

1328
01:04:39,070 --> 01:04:37,160
highway mmm cuz that's its Lou I've

1329
01:04:42,460 --> 01:04:39,080
traveled from a blade all the way up to

1330
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:42,470
Darwin and it is a long but that's where

1331
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:44,450
all the scary people are too right oh

1332
01:04:48,340 --> 01:04:46,250
yeah that's not all of them most of them

1333
01:04:50,590 --> 01:04:48,350
that's where you disappear and you're

1334
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:50,600
never found the only feeling I'm so

1335
01:04:54,580 --> 01:04:52,730
sorry honey if your name is tourist I'm

1336
01:04:58,780 --> 01:04:54,590
skeptical you don't think we'll craic

1337
01:05:01,499 --> 01:04:58,790
you like okay baby really aren't you

1338
01:05:06,209 --> 01:05:04,379
on to something a little bit a little

1339
01:05:08,759 --> 01:05:06,219
bit more serious but you actually

1340
01:05:11,370 --> 01:05:08,769
discussed a while ago against is a

1341
01:05:14,009 --> 01:05:11,380
follow on from harm you might remember

1342
01:05:17,309 --> 01:05:14,019
me mentioning a while back a study that

1343
01:05:19,049 --> 01:05:17,319
had been published by a forensic

1344
01:05:22,349 --> 01:05:19,059
pathologist by the name of Roger buyer

1345
01:05:24,809 --> 01:05:22,359
who'd been looking at herbal medicines

1346
01:05:26,909 --> 01:05:24,819
and so on and the contamination by lead

1347
01:05:29,159 --> 01:05:26,919
mercury various other but we know that's

1348
01:05:30,749 --> 01:05:29,169
because almost seemed obvious absolutely

1349
01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:30,759
just Big Pharma don't make alternative

1350
01:05:36,989 --> 01:05:34,089
medicine do they know no anyway this of

1351
01:05:40,169 --> 01:05:36,999
course is um been uh been sparked by

1352
01:05:43,529 --> 01:05:40,179
visit karen phelps no oh yes well

1353
01:05:45,449 --> 01:05:43,539
whenever I'm going to events food

1354
01:05:49,259 --> 01:05:45,459
weather events because we live in sku

1355
01:05:50,969 --> 01:05:49,269
yes um and and what's really bugging me

1356
01:05:53,129 --> 01:05:50,979
about everything that Karen Phelps is

1357
01:05:55,349 --> 01:05:53,139
saying these days is that it just starts

1358
01:05:57,779 --> 01:05:55,359
immediately from a completely stupid

1359
01:05:59,999 --> 01:05:57,789
premise which is that the people who are

1360
01:06:03,389 --> 01:06:00,009
giving these herbs out who are treating

1361
01:06:07,499 --> 01:06:03,399
these people actually have some sort of

1362
01:06:09,599 --> 01:06:07,509
valid qualifications so much it's good

1363
01:06:10,709 --> 01:06:09,609
qualification system no knowledge she

1364
01:06:13,829 --> 01:06:10,719
right knowledge is a more appropriate

1365
01:06:16,289 --> 01:06:13,839
word so I'm so professor professor

1366
01:06:18,719 --> 01:06:16,299
Phelps basically she's saying that the

1367
01:06:20,879 --> 01:06:18,729
lat the the lack of registration

1368
01:06:24,299 --> 01:06:20,889
standards for all of these practitioners

1369
01:06:26,669 --> 01:06:24,309
is putting consumers at risk and that it

1370
01:06:29,370 --> 01:06:26,679
really it's just about that some of

1371
01:06:30,749 --> 01:06:29,380
these people are actually valid

1372
01:06:32,519 --> 01:06:30,759
practitioners and in there and then

1373
01:06:35,149 --> 01:06:32,529
there are those few alternative medicine

1374
01:06:36,929 --> 01:06:35,159
practitioners out there who are

1375
01:06:38,639 --> 01:06:36,939
potentially putting people at risk

1376
01:06:40,739 --> 01:06:38,649
because they're not properly qualified

1377
01:06:42,329 --> 01:06:40,749
and so on and the whole premise behind

1378
01:06:44,039 --> 01:06:42,339
this is completely ridiculous yes the

1379
01:06:48,089 --> 01:06:44,049
whole point is that the very point of

1380
01:06:49,589 --> 01:06:48,099
their starting from I even the whatever

1381
01:06:52,109 --> 01:06:49,599
treatments it is that they're giving a

1382
01:06:53,999 --> 01:06:52,119
prop Joe you're failing to mention

1383
01:06:58,499 --> 01:06:54,009
something very important professor Karen

1384
01:07:00,929 --> 01:06:58,509
Phil's sells these famous hey no that's

1385
01:07:02,639 --> 01:07:00,939
of course you would say that I mean what

1386
01:07:05,609 --> 01:07:02,649
would you expect I mean that we know how

1387
01:07:06,839 --> 01:07:05,619
psychics talk about other psychics being

1388
01:07:07,259 --> 01:07:06,849
you know like they're reputable with

1389
01:07:09,479 --> 01:07:07,269
others

1390
01:07:12,649 --> 01:07:09,489
not unless the professor Phelps is seen

1391
01:07:15,359 --> 01:07:12,659
in the media and in the public yes a

1392
01:07:18,929 --> 01:07:15,369
relative practitioner the former head of

1393
01:07:21,719 --> 01:07:18,939
the AMA you know she's seen as being

1394
01:07:24,449 --> 01:07:21,729
part of the camp of people that we would

1395
01:07:26,399 --> 01:07:24,459
normally expect to bring something quite

1396
01:07:28,559 --> 01:07:26,409
different that's a shame so she's an

1397
01:07:31,439 --> 01:07:28,569
embarrassment well well that's why she

1398
01:07:34,139 --> 01:07:31,449
won the bend spoon not because she sells

1399
01:07:36,899 --> 01:07:34,149
clattering we wouldn't be possible to

1400
01:07:38,969 --> 01:07:36,909
give a bent spoon award to every

1401
01:07:43,469 --> 01:07:38,979
purveyor of quackery Illustrated because

1402
01:07:46,620 --> 01:07:43,479
we've run out of cutlery but uh but she

1403
01:07:51,449 --> 01:07:46,630
won she wanted because she abuses her

1404
01:07:54,539 --> 01:07:51,459
reputation to do that hmm that's not a

1405
01:07:55,949 --> 01:07:54,549
not a good story to tell no no no not a

1406
01:08:02,069 --> 01:07:55,959
good story she also recently commented

1407
01:08:04,679 --> 01:08:02,079
on the decision from the evidence check

1408
01:08:07,620 --> 01:08:04,689
about homeopathy and that interview was

1409
01:08:11,429 --> 01:08:07,630
done on ABC radio and she was put up as

1410
01:08:13,409 --> 01:08:11,439
a personal you know great knowledge and

1411
01:08:15,269 --> 01:08:13,419
great reputation and was saying well

1412
01:08:17,759 --> 01:08:15,279
homeopathy much need to be tested a bit

1413
01:08:19,919 --> 01:08:17,769
more it was that's what I said I can't

1414
01:08:22,470 --> 01:08:19,929
remember what did she say Joe oh I can't

1415
01:08:25,079 --> 01:08:22,480
remember but she was she was basically

1416
01:08:27,559 --> 01:08:25,089
saying that she disagreed with the

1417
01:08:30,749 --> 01:08:27,569
decision made from the evidence check

1418
01:08:33,509 --> 01:08:30,759
yeah that there is value and homeopathy

1419
01:08:37,470 --> 01:08:33,519
done what about that one in the northern

1420
01:08:41,879 --> 01:08:37,480
star that homie up no do you know what

1421
01:08:43,890 --> 01:08:41,889
happened with that ok this is no this is

1422
01:08:45,689 --> 01:08:43,900
so funny there was an article in the

1423
01:08:47,370 --> 01:08:45,699
northern star which is the local paper

1424
01:08:49,620 --> 01:08:47,380
of the Northern Rivers region I've been

1425
01:08:51,259 --> 01:08:49,630
doing so well yeah and it was about the

1426
01:08:53,819 --> 01:08:51,269
evidence taken the committee's

1427
01:08:56,009 --> 01:08:53,829
recommendations to the NHS to call

1428
01:08:58,700 --> 01:08:56,019
funding from homeopathy so happy

1429
01:09:01,769 --> 01:08:58,710
Etienne's local paper it is yeah it is

1430
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:01,779
and they talk to her practicing

1431
01:09:08,339 --> 01:09:04,449
homeopath in the area and she said well

1432
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:08,349
because homeopathy doesn't prove

1433
01:09:13,229 --> 01:09:11,199
positive when tested with science the

1434
01:09:14,609 --> 01:09:13,239
science has to be wrong basically that's

1435
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:14,619
what she said I'm paraphrasing it

1436
01:09:19,049 --> 01:09:16,480
basically that's what she said because

1437
01:09:20,070 --> 01:09:19,059
the science doesn't show work sciences

1438
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:20,080
wrong times

1439
01:09:25,059 --> 01:09:23,330
so we tweeted that you and I tweeted it

1440
01:09:27,789 --> 01:09:25,069
a few days ago yeah and somebody

1441
01:09:30,610 --> 01:09:27,799
responded to you with saying that pretty

1442
01:09:33,490 --> 01:09:30,620
much because homeopathy doesn't work the

1443
01:09:35,470 --> 01:09:33,500
science is wrong just before I left home

1444
01:09:37,660 --> 01:09:35,480
there's a couple of homeopaths on

1445
01:09:40,300 --> 01:09:37,670
twitter that some of my followers tend

1446
01:09:43,660 --> 01:09:40,310
to have a bit of a goal and one of

1447
01:09:47,709 --> 01:09:43,670
them's called dr. Nancy Malik apparently

1448
01:09:50,769 --> 01:09:47,719
she tweeted that exact phrase about an

1449
01:09:54,129 --> 01:09:50,779
hour ago what yes she actually tweeted

1450
01:09:56,260 --> 01:09:54,139
that phrase that you and I tweeted that

1451
01:09:59,200 --> 01:09:56,270
a week ago and one of your followers

1452
01:10:01,510 --> 01:09:59,210
picked up on and I tweeted it as a joke

1453
01:10:07,959 --> 01:10:01,520
and she actually tweeted that as a

1454
01:10:09,459 --> 01:10:07,969
serious it was that um homeopathy news

1455
01:10:11,229 --> 01:10:09,469
in and you know that's exactly what she

1456
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:11,239
said she said we know I'm your college

1457
01:10:14,530 --> 01:10:13,010
but i'm waiting for science teachers way

1458
01:10:16,899 --> 01:10:14,540
to catch up yeah that's the wing of

1459
01:10:18,879 --> 01:10:16,909
yours well it'd be a funny thing about

1460
01:10:21,490 --> 01:10:18,889
whether cruelty bees the funny thing

1461
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:21,500
about this woman in the northern rivers

1462
01:10:25,300 --> 01:10:22,850
article was she said we need to

1463
01:10:28,930 --> 01:10:25,310
formulate a way to thoroughly test

1464
01:10:33,970 --> 01:10:28,940
homeopathy and somebody said we have it

1465
01:10:36,820 --> 01:10:33,980
it's called science point which Karen

1466
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:36,830
Phelps is appeared and is there's been a

1467
01:10:41,340 --> 01:10:38,570
bit of coverage recently in the herald

1468
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:41,350
about the issue of nutrition and cancer

1469
01:10:48,490 --> 01:10:46,130
for cancer patients and once again she's

1470
01:10:51,310 --> 01:10:48,500
she's come out commenting on you know

1471
01:10:52,750 --> 01:10:51,320
that the lack of training for doctors

1472
01:10:54,910 --> 01:10:52,760
about nutritional therapy and good

1473
01:10:57,939 --> 01:10:54,920
nutrition enhancer now this is really

1474
01:10:59,740 --> 01:10:57,949
really earthly because one of the

1475
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:59,750
problems that they're talking about is

1476
01:11:03,290 --> 01:11:01,040
how so many people are being diagnosed

1477
01:11:06,050 --> 01:11:03,300
with cancer more and more people

1478
01:11:08,690 --> 01:11:06,060
cancer are going on to these really

1479
01:11:11,870 --> 01:11:08,700
really extreme diets cutting out a lot

1480
01:11:13,790 --> 01:11:11,880
of foods you know cutting out pretty

1481
01:11:17,020 --> 01:11:13,800
much anything except raw foods these

1482
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:17,030
these all this juicing and so on and

1483
01:11:22,450 --> 01:11:19,170
this is a really really major issue

1484
01:11:25,460 --> 01:11:22,460
because you look at the people I'm

1485
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:25,470
people are looking after who have got

1486
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:27,210
cancer and who are having chemotherapy

1487
01:11:30,620 --> 01:11:29,280
and radiotherapy the one thing these

1488
01:11:32,450 --> 01:11:30,630
people need more than anything is good

1489
01:11:34,670 --> 01:11:32,460
nutrition will you talk back with you

1490
01:11:36,980 --> 01:11:34,680
Trisha you're talking about any calories

1491
01:11:39,950 --> 01:11:36,990
that they can possibly get and keep down

1492
01:11:41,180 --> 01:11:39,960
so you know we when we talk to people

1493
01:11:42,890 --> 01:11:41,190
about what they can eat when that

1494
01:11:44,870 --> 01:11:42,900
undergoing cancer treatments you don't

1495
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:44,880
tell them stop eating this stop eating

1496
01:11:48,290 --> 01:11:46,410
that when these people are having

1497
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:48,300
chemotherapy and radiotherapy they don't

1498
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:49,770
keep much down at all if they want to

1499
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:51,330
eat chocolate they want to eat anything

1500
01:11:54,140 --> 01:11:52,770
that is going to give them some energy

1501
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:54,150
and some nutrition to get through their

1502
01:11:57,950 --> 01:11:56,370
treatment well the last thing these

1503
01:11:59,570 --> 01:11:57,960
people need to be doing is going on to

1504
01:12:01,160 --> 01:11:59,580
these and crazy diets where they're

1505
01:12:04,340 --> 01:12:01,170
actually cutting out the things that

1506
01:12:08,150 --> 01:12:04,350
they need so to have people like Karen

1507
01:12:11,060 --> 01:12:08,160
Phelps advocating you know this sort of

1508
01:12:13,580 --> 01:12:11,070
nutrition people can season counter to

1509
01:12:15,950 --> 01:12:13,590
what the cancer council and and what

1510
01:12:18,890 --> 01:12:15,960
cancer specialist actually say so and

1511
01:12:21,050 --> 01:12:18,900
also Joe I got a press release from

1512
01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:21,060
Loretta Marin who's known as the jelly

1513
01:12:26,090 --> 01:12:23,280
bean lady and she does a lot of advocacy

1514
01:12:29,180 --> 01:12:26,100
work in debunking myths surrounding

1515
01:12:31,810 --> 01:12:29,190
cancer particularly and the a triple c

1516
01:12:34,970 --> 01:12:31,820
which is the Australian Consumer

1517
01:12:38,900 --> 01:12:34,980
Commission something reduce competition

1518
01:12:41,710 --> 01:12:38,910
because yeah they actually just um came

1519
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:41,720
down heavily on an alternative cancer

1520
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:44,490
retreat somewhere in Queensland who

1521
01:12:49,490 --> 01:12:47,370
would exposing the you know benefits of

1522
01:12:51,050 --> 01:12:49,500
these diets and I've told them that they

1523
01:12:52,730 --> 01:12:51,060
basically have to stop doing that until

1524
01:12:55,940 --> 01:12:52,740
their investigations are complete

1525
01:12:57,470 --> 01:12:55,950
because it's it's nonsense absolutely

1526
01:12:58,640 --> 01:12:57,480
well the cats counselor said that

1527
01:13:00,030 --> 01:12:58,650
they've been getting more and more phone

1528
01:13:02,660 --> 01:13:00,040
calls to their round

1529
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:02,670
support lines from people who are

1530
01:13:06,570 --> 01:13:04,930
following these kinds of diets or who

1531
01:13:07,710 --> 01:13:06,580
are asking advice and they say that you

1532
01:13:10,380 --> 01:13:07,720
know they're often getting people who

1533
01:13:12,300 --> 01:13:10,390
are coming back to them you know a year

1534
01:13:14,850 --> 01:13:12,310
down the track having waste you know

1535
01:13:17,870 --> 01:13:14,860
spent all their money on some retreat

1536
01:13:20,790 --> 01:13:17,880
somewhere or some unproven you know

1537
01:13:25,250 --> 01:13:20,800
nutritional therapy and then coming back

1538
01:13:28,590 --> 01:13:25,260
to them with you know basically a

1539
01:13:29,940 --> 01:13:28,600
untreatable cancer and really as they've

1540
01:13:33,180 --> 01:13:29,950
said here asking for financial

1541
01:13:36,650 --> 01:13:33,190
assistance to plan a funeral you know

1542
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:36,660
it's really it's really really bad

1543
01:13:44,940 --> 01:13:40,090
thanks Joe thanks Joe yeah sometimes you

1544
01:13:46,620 --> 01:13:44,950
know sometimes I think to myself what

1545
01:13:48,540 --> 01:13:46,630
are we doing I mean we spend an awful

1546
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:48,550
lot of time being skeptics and running

1547
01:13:53,180 --> 01:13:50,770
around and doing jobs that I think the

1548
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:53,190
government don't do enough of time but I

1549
01:13:58,400 --> 01:13:56,650
guess I guess we've got good motives

1550
01:14:01,170 --> 01:13:58,410
when I hear a story like that people

1551
01:14:03,030 --> 01:14:01,180
delaying proper health care and we do

1552
01:14:05,310 --> 01:14:03,040
what we can don't we we do what we can

1553
01:14:09,090 --> 01:14:05,320
so thank you everybody for listening and

1554
01:14:10,770 --> 01:14:09,100
I'm always curious to know in the back

1555
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:10,780
of my mind when we're doing the think

1556
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:12,850
tank I've always got this Thornton what

1557
01:14:18,930 --> 01:14:17,290
are our listeners doing at the moment we

1558
01:14:21,690 --> 01:14:18,940
saw you want to know show you how many

1559
01:14:23,370 --> 01:14:21,700
of them are in Australia cuz the ones i

1560
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:23,380
don't know they having dinner no yeah i

1561
01:14:28,170 --> 01:14:25,330
don't know the breakdown no not right at

1562
01:14:29,850 --> 01:14:28,180
the moment I mean listening listening

1563
01:14:36,300 --> 01:14:29,860
yeah all those people who are driving

1564
01:14:38,130 --> 01:14:36,310
cars I'll let your hand up ok huggy on

1565
01:14:40,890 --> 01:14:38,140
all those people in the gym keep at it

1566
01:14:44,850 --> 01:14:40,900
well done anybody's in the toilet raise

1567
01:14:46,770 --> 01:14:44,860
a hand no not that happy those people

1568
01:14:54,610 --> 01:14:46,780
who are rollerblading look out for

1569
01:15:02,560 --> 01:14:59,110
I should never have told us that started

1570
01:15:04,030 --> 01:15:02,570
people who insomniacs thank you for

1571
01:15:06,430 --> 01:15:04,040
listening to us I'm sure we'll send you

1572
01:15:08,110 --> 01:15:06,440
to sleep people who are grocery shopping

1573
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:08,120
I wish I'd like to listen to podcasts

1574
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:11,330
when I grow really yeah I do too ok well

1575
01:15:15,580 --> 01:15:13,010
the late-night shopping and yes what

1576
01:15:17,170 --> 01:15:15,590
less then yeah okay oh I used to like

1577
01:15:18,370 --> 01:15:17,180
listening when I used to go for a walk

1578
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:18,380
but now that I was that as swimming

1579
01:15:24,310 --> 01:15:21,170
instead of it those people swimming or

1580
01:15:26,620 --> 01:15:24,320
they would be but Ulysses podcasts when

1581
01:15:30,610 --> 01:15:26,630
you're cleaning odds if I'm saying I'm

1582
01:15:33,130 --> 01:15:30,620
cleaning endoscopes and Dinah her

1583
01:15:35,350 --> 01:15:33,140
cleaning how to you right now cleaning

1584
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:35,360
out toilets and washing the floor and

1585
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:37,970
thank you cleaning endoscope I really

1586
01:15:41,470 --> 01:15:40,250
hope that I really hope that we're

1587
01:15:43,990 --> 01:15:41,480
keeping you company if you're listening

1588
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:44,000
by yourself and you like downloading the

1589
01:15:48,220 --> 01:15:46,490
show I hope that we are good company for

1590
01:15:49,690 --> 01:15:48,230
you and I'd like to thank this present

1591
01:15:54,030 --> 01:15:49,700
company doctor rachy thank you again

1592
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:54,040
thank you Richard Diane rabbits and all

1593
01:16:00,460 --> 01:15:56,960
runs together grateful to anjo better

1594
01:16:26,459 --> 01:16:00,470
move thank you and until next think tank

1595
01:16:31,229 --> 01:16:29,850
Richard yeah it's gone quiet what

1596
01:16:32,899 --> 01:16:31,239
happened to the jacket I think the

1597
01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:32,909
crystal miners have gone on strike on

1598
01:16:36,509 --> 01:16:34,510
strike yeah well they're probably

1599
01:16:38,129 --> 01:16:36,519
getting a few pains and aches and stuff

1600
01:16:39,390 --> 01:16:38,139
they need a bit of liver cleansing so

1601
01:16:41,549 --> 01:16:39,400
they've probably gone on strike to get

1602
01:16:45,419 --> 01:16:41,559
access to the very crystals that they're

1603
01:16:47,609 --> 01:16:45,429
mining right which is good for us

1604
01:16:50,609 --> 01:16:47,619
because we can close the show in peace

1605
01:16:52,020 --> 01:16:50,619
and quiet we can thank you listeners yes

1606
01:16:54,060 --> 01:16:52,030
thank you isn't it it's been a wonderful

1607
01:16:55,469 --> 01:16:54,070
episode again oh thank you Stefan it's

1608
01:16:56,669 --> 01:16:55,479
great to see you again Richard thank you

1609
01:16:58,709 --> 01:16:56,679
Stefan we don't see each other that much

1610
01:17:00,419 --> 01:16:58,719
we only get together for these intros

1611
01:17:02,669 --> 01:17:00,429
and outros and the occasional think tank

1612
01:17:04,379 --> 01:17:02,679
not like the old days I always catch up

1613
01:17:06,450 --> 01:17:04,389
every week in the old days when I used

1614
01:17:08,549 --> 01:17:06,460
to come around to the Excelsior and

1615
01:17:10,290 --> 01:17:08,559
gloom AH you know you're doing the music

1616
01:17:11,549 --> 01:17:10,300
though those are the days those were the

1617
01:17:13,350 --> 01:17:11,559
days and you should fold your little

1618
01:17:14,969 --> 01:17:13,360
origami things for all the all the

1619
01:17:18,930 --> 01:17:14,979
backpackers they stay still love it

1620
01:17:21,660 --> 01:17:18,940
nearly 20 years ago don't tell me that I

1621
01:17:23,100 --> 01:17:21,670
was having a nice day until in but

1622
01:17:25,919 --> 01:17:23,110
thanks very much and thank you this is

1623
01:17:27,209 --> 01:17:25,929
once again for for tuning in the skeptic

1624
01:17:30,419 --> 01:17:27,219
zone going from strength to strength

1625
01:17:33,029 --> 01:17:30,429
yeah and episode 74 next week we have an

1626
01:17:35,850 --> 01:17:33,039
interview with our one of the science

1627
01:17:38,850 --> 01:17:35,860
teachers from Redeemer baptist school

1628
01:17:42,509 --> 01:17:38,860
redeem Baptist here in Sydney because

1629
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:42,519
they the school does very well year

1630
01:17:46,049 --> 01:17:44,650
after year in the National Student

1631
01:17:48,959 --> 01:17:46,059
science awards or the new south wales

1632
01:17:52,410 --> 01:17:48,969
student loans and their Baptist's yet

1633
01:17:54,270 --> 01:17:52,420
you will find out wow what how can we be

1634
01:17:56,310 --> 01:17:54,280
it's an interesting I'm curious I'm

1635
01:18:01,600 --> 01:17:56,320
curious too i will i'll see you next

1636
01:18:07,690 --> 01:18:03,730
you've been listening to the skeptic

1637
01:18:11,500 --> 01:18:07,700
zone visit our website at www scripting

1638
01:18:14,739 --> 01:18:11,510
zoomtv for comments contacts and extra

1639
01:18:14,749 --> 01:18:19,660
skids